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Old 07-31-2018, 01:46 PM   #151
.Alex.
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by ASPoker8 View Post
Huge surprise that a lot of people (including in this forum) are primarily tribal and treat politics through the lens of loyalty to a team. There's generally a lot of backlash against people who are primarily interested in improving outcomes and who put that before any allegiance to a team.
You have it exactly backwards. Most people here are aligned with Dems even though we know they are deeply flawed because we understand it's the most practical way to improve our current situation. Whereas you and Glenn make your arguments from an abstract state that's divorced from reality.

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The best analogue somebody else made is Chomsky. Greenwald hates political corruption so much he somehow ends up being a Trump apologist just like Chomsky cares so much about oppressed Asians that he ends up being a useful idiot for Mao and Pol Pot. The motives really donít matter when the hawt takes are that dumb.
Comparing Glenn to Chomsky is like comparing Keed to Dvaut1.

By the way, Dvaut has made numerous posts that largely agree with Greenwald's/Keed's analysis of the Russia issue. Wonder why no one gets mad at him or calls him a Kremlin agent?
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Old 07-31-2018, 01:50 PM   #152
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

that's a good question, why do folks get so mad at me and Glenn but not dvault when dvault posts similar stuff?

But, in any case, style aside, chomsky wholeheartedly agrees with greenwald's russia analysis and commentary.

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Old 07-31-2018, 01:51 PM   #153
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

You should think about that.
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Old 07-31-2018, 01:55 PM   #154
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around your guys' mindset, need to read up on KOMPROMAT maybe
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:04 PM   #155
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

alex: Comparing Chompsky to Greenwald is like comparing Keed to Dvault
me: Chompsky and greenwald believe literally the same thing on Russia? Like almost exactly?
alex: THINK ABOUT IT
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:05 PM   #156
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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ALL THE COGNITIVE DISSONANCE

hmm interesting
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:06 PM   #157
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Goofyballer, who is supposedly a data scientist or actuary or something
LOL
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:06 PM   #158
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by SenorKeeed View Post
alex: Comparing Chompsky to Greenwald is like comparing Keed to Dvault
me: Chompsky and greenwald believe literally the same thing on Russia? Like almost exactly?
alex: THINK ABOUT IT
Hint: It's not the position on Russia. It's the disingenuous arguments, personal vendettas, refusal to acknowledge new evidence, attack on the press, snarky whataboutism, and complete lack of proportional response that makes him unbearable.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:08 PM   #159
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

People always say Greenwald makes disingenuous argument but they never provide an example. Start with a particularly disingenuous argument he's made.

As far as the lack of proportional response, snarky pointing out of people's hypocrisy and lack of consistent moral standards, and personal vendettas, he's always been like that. It's valid if haughty tone policing is your thing, who am I to judge. But it works best if your concern for greenwald's tone didn't start in 2016 though.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:30 PM   #160
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by .Alex. View Post
Comparing Glenn to Chomsky is like comparing Keed to Dvaut1.

By the way, Dvaut has made numerous posts that largely agree with Greenwald's/Keed's analysis of the Russia issue. Wonder why no one gets mad at him or calls him a Kremlin agent?
He probably hides it in paragraph 8 of his post so people may not bother to read it. But if anybody is bothering to read that far they should criticize his alleged dumb Russia analysis.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:37 PM   #161
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by thenewsavman View Post
Instead of reevaluating and adjusting their belief systems in light of new information, it's easier (and perfectly human) to believe that some all powerful exogenous force was at play; this allows them to keep their belief systems intact, but it leads to all sorts of crazy outcomes because now you have to square reality with your new core belief that Russia did in fact rig the election.
So, fun story:

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Originally Posted by thenewsavman View Post
Goofyballer, who is supposedly a data scientist or actuary or something, actually had Hillary 100, Trump 0 as his avatar
Every single part of this post is wrong about me. How will you reevaluate and adjust your belief system in light of this new information?
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:41 PM   #162
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

he will probably remember that he's thinking of goofball rather than goofyballer. HOW COULD SOMEONE MAKE SUCH AN ERROR
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:46 PM   #163
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by ASPoker8 View Post
Huge surprise that a lot of people (including in this forum) are primarily tribal and treat politics through the lens of loyalty to a team. There's generally a lot of backlash against people who are primarily interested in improving outcomes and who put that before any allegiance to a team.

I think a lot of the response to me here is personal and/or emotional backlash to criticism of dems and that's fine, I'd feel much worse if I was lockstep with people who think GG is a Kremlin agent.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Yeah man, people only don't like you because they are tribal and not as enlightened as you. Obviously it has nothing to do with your only contributions being to pop in and jerk off about how much better you are than everyone else once a month or so.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:48 PM   #164
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by .Alex. View Post
You have it exactly backwards. Most people here are aligned with Dems even though we know they are deeply flawed because we understand it's the most practical way to improve our current situation. Whereas you and Glenn make your arguments from an abstract state that's divorced from reality.



Comparing Glenn to Chomsky is like comparing Keed to Dvaut1.

By the way, Dvaut has made numerous posts that largely agree with Greenwald's/Keed's analysis of the Russia issue. Wonder why no one gets mad at him or calls him a Kremlin agent?
Dvaut has played down the importance of the Russia interference issue for years and I have never really agreed with him on that. HOWEVER, his reasons for his position are worldís apart from Greenwald and Keedwald. Dvautís biggest issue with the Russia investigation is it is a distraction that is providing cover for other issues to slide by. On top of that even when Dvaut writes things I do not agree with he is confidently capable to lay out his position in such a way that it providers the reader something to think about.

Greenwald does absolutely none of that.

Tl;dr Dvaut might take issue with so much attention on Russia as it pulls focus from other important issues. Greenwald takes issue because he wants to attack democrats and Hillary Clinton. (Also Dvaut is an independent thinker and Greenwald is being handled by Vladimir Putin).
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:49 PM   #165
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by SenorKeeed View Post
People always say Greenwald makes disingenuous argument but they never provide an example. Start with a particularly disingenuous argument he's made.
His claim that Trump has been harder on Russia than Obama is a good place to start.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...69809022525440

Quote:
As far as the lack of proportional response, snarky pointing out of people's hypocrisy and lack of consistent moral standards, and personal vendettas, he's always been like that. It's valid if haughty tone policing is your thing, who am I to judge. But it works best if your concern for greenwald's tone didn't start in 2016 though.
At least before 2016 he was going after people in power. Now he is attacking those who are attacking people in power. Who are much worse than those in power before.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:50 PM   #166
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by SenorKeeed View Post
he will probably remember that he's thinking of goofball rather than goofyballer. HOW COULD SOMEONE MAKE SUCH AN ERROR
Oh, then what a great and relevant indictment of this forum he's making by talking about someone who...*checks search*...has 10 posts in this forum since March
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:51 PM   #167
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by ASPoker8 View Post
Huge surprise that a lot of people (including in this forum) are primarily tribal and treat politics through the lens of loyalty to a team. There's generally a lot of backlash against people who are primarily interested in improving outcomes and who put that before any allegiance to a team.

I think a lot of the response to me here is personal and/or emotional backlash to criticism of dems and that's fine, I'd feel much worse if I was lockstep with people who think GG is a Kremlin agent.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
What team am I on specifically?
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:55 PM   #168
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

How is Greenwald saying that on many specific policies the Trump administration has taken a harder line towards Russia disingenuous?

As far as his journalistic focus goes, this is a good explanation of why he's been concentrating on what he has been.


Last edited by SenorKeeed; 07-31-2018 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:10 PM   #169
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by SenorKeeed View Post
People always say Greenwald makes disingenuous argument but they never provide an example. Start with a particularly disingenuous argument he's made.
hth

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Old 07-31-2018, 03:12 PM   #170
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

Could you explain how that is disingenuous? It seems quite sincere and sensible
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:12 PM   #171
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Actually that's not the case. Snowden was trying to go to South America to seek asylum and got his passport canceled while in Moscow, preventing him from flying onward. He then relied on assistance from somebody associated with Assange and was able to gain temporary residency in Russia after staying in the international transfer area for X amount of days.

I could buy Assange having some pull with Russia and probably be in their pocket whether as a price to pay for Snowden not getting ****ed or for his own personal gain. But why buy Greenwald off? The guy has no readership compared to actual journalists and only makes a dent in the mainstream as a token liberal on FOX News. Really, he doesn't give a **** what happens to Snowden. Glenn got his Pulitizer and notoriety for that story. What happens to Snowden has no impact on him.
The why is Russia plays a very long game and cultivate all levels of assets. Most end of being worthless but others end up turning into someone with exposure and influence. I donít think we share the same mindset as the Russian operations. What we view as a waste of time with little chance of pay off they view as an investment of a very small amount of resources that might eventually pay off.

Personally I am confident that Greenwald, wittingly or unwittingly has been steered by Russian agents for a very long time. Sure it sounds like stuff out of fictional spy novels but this has been standard operating procedure for Russian a security branches for the past 60 plus years. None of that has changed under Putin.

Plus in the last ~20 years Russia has been able to expand their covert reach through the international commerce of their billionaire oligarchs who have investments and resources all over the world outside the traditional spy apparatus. Would you be even a little surprised if we learned Russian actors were involved in facilitating the Snowden/Asange/Wikileaks/Greenwald machinations? I feel comfortable restating in that whole story line that Snowden was the only one not directly tainted by Russisn security agents.


For me the onus is on Glenn Greenwald, to say, do or write things that donít continue to substantially support the reality is he was and is compromised. Because he will do a story on RT one day and will demonstrate I was completely mistaken, but I am not holding my breath.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:12 PM   #172
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

inc. 5 pages of Kaids pretending not to understand why that argument is disingenuous
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:13 PM   #173
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

lol yup here we go
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:15 PM   #174
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

Not pretending, I agree with that tweet and the argument seems good? Go ahead and explain why you think otherwise.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:19 PM   #175
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by SenorKeeed View Post
How is Greenwald saying that on many specific policies the Trump administration has taken a harder line towards Russia disingenuous?
It's disingenuous because A) Trump has fought tooth and nail against any sanctions and harsher policies, B) Pressure on Russia specifically increased after 2015 due to their takeover of Crimea, not because of any administration forces, and C) Trump is purposefully ignoring Russian bots and hacking attempts which weren't known factors before the last election.

Edit: Oh yea, and D) It ignores the fact that multiple people closely connected with Trump actively colluded with Russia.

Last edited by .Alex.; 07-31-2018 at 03:28 PM.
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