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Old 07-30-2018, 08:25 PM   #101
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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He offers a little lip service here and there to criticize Trump and doesn't actively support him
Greenwald criticizes Trump routinely, from the left, and on issues that are really destructive (war, immigration policy, etc). He has made it very clear that he doesn't support him.


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but that doesn't mean he isn't helping him. He is being far more insidious than Trump supporters. Rather than explicitly supporting him, he throws shade on the bull**** Trump's doing by creating false equivalences between things done (mostly by Democrats) and what's happening now.
Most of this is lying and silly conspiracy peddling, but the main point is that you are VERY upset that GG continues to also criticize your TEAM when they are bad because all of the criticism should be directed at Trump.

Greenwald believes, quite reasonably, that many of the country's underlying problems are systemic and have developed over many administrations and are now being exploited and laid bare by Trump. What you call false equivalences is what most people would call addressing the root of the problem.

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This destructive use of whataboutism to divert attention away from the misgivings of others allows those misgivings to go on while people argue about past bull**** that can't be changed and is completely off-topic. Even worse is that whataboutism creates an environment where everybody is morally compromised and therefore does not have the moral authority to criticize another person's actions. This leads to the most despicable actions possible going on without opposition as nobody is qualified to oppose them. People who use this tactic should be shamed. In a small way, each whataboutism makes the world a worse place.
I think your ramblings about whataboutism are incoherent and I can't find a nice way to respond.
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:40 PM   #102
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Old 07-30-2018, 08:43 PM   #103
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Greenwald believes, quite reasonably, that many of the country's underlying problems are systemic and have developed over many administrations and are now being exploited and laid bare by Trump. What you call false equivalences is what most people would call addressing the root of the problem.
Greenwald believes, quiet idiotically, that the way he critiques systemic problems is useful and productive. He has his head so far up his own self-righteous ass that he is oblivious to how terrible and tone deaf his arguments are. If your formerly loyal audience increasingly wonders if you're a Russian stooge, that's probably not a problem with the audience.
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:48 PM   #104
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

Imagine thinking that criticism of entrenched power/horrible institutions is a sign that you have your head up your ass.

The people who think GG is a Russian stooge are complete idiots, but if you're on board with them, you wouldn't be the first from this forum!
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:50 PM   #105
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

Whoever starts it with GG on either side is effing up.
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:54 PM   #106
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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If your formerly loyal audience increasingly wonders if you're a Russian stooge, that's probably not a problem with the audience.
I'm curious about this one. Do you really think that it's GG's readership and primary audience who make claims that he is a Russian stooge? You don't see those claims originating from other places?
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:54 PM   #107
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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He was worried about illegal immigrant hordes back in 2005 when he was still just a lawyer with a blog. That compass has been busted for a while.

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2...legal.html?m=1
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:12 PM   #108
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Greenwald used to have a strong moral compass, wherever it may have guided him, but he got a little too hooked on owning the libs for fun and no longer gives a **** about principles anymore
This. I still like GG and I'd still read his stuff because I think he still had the correct orientation of trying to speak truth to power, but he's gotten so fixated on trying to own the libs that I read it with that in mind.

Yglesias has been quietly owning him a few times in the last week. First, Yglesias showed an older tweet where GG was blasting Yglesias for being a Democrat shill because he was deleting is old tweets that people were dredging up which, of course, is what GG just did.

Yglesias also pointed out that in GG's article about the defense budget vote GG found the 1 or 2 Republican Nays to get a quote while hyping up the amount of Dem Yea votes to paint the Dems as the warmongers when there were way more Ds objecting.

Yglesias' point was if you're looking for people who are against war you're far more likely to find them on the D side, there were a lot more D Nays, even if there is a lot of Ds to vote for it, but GG is so fixated on portraying the Ds as equally warmongering that his article gives the false impression that Rs are just as dovish as Ds.
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:16 PM   #109
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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I'm curious about this one. Do you really think that it's GG's readership and primary audience who make claims that he is a Russian stooge? You don't see those claims originating from other places?
Yes, it sure seems that way, and no, not really. You have to be imagining a seriously weird shadowy cabal of pro-military/intelligence operators who have chosen this exact moment in history to undermine some random journalist in Brazil who reaches an audience of maybe 0.2% of the US population.

Do you read the rest of the forum? Are you even reading this thread?
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:42 PM   #110
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Greenwald criticizes Trump routinely, from the left, and on issues that are really destructive (war, immigration policy, etc). He has made it very clear that he doesn't support him.
He may criticize right-wing talking points but he's been playing down stuff like Russian collusion and spent most of the build up to the 2016 election shouting about Hillary conspiracies. **** off with your bull****.

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Most of this is lying and silly conspiracy peddling, but the main point is that you are VERY upset that GG continues to also criticize your TEAM when they are bad because all of the criticism should be directed at Trump.
Nope. This is you coming into this thread with a preconceived notion (people only hate Greenwald here because he criticizes the libs) and trying to contort posts to confirm it. You'll see plenty of criticism of the Democratic Party here.

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Greenwald believes, quite reasonably, that many of the country's underlying problems are systemic and have developed over many administrations and are now being exploited and laid bare by Trump. What you call false equivalences is what most people would call addressing the root of the problem.
Don't make him sound like some kind of superhero delivering the messages that the people don't want to hear. He's not a ****ing martyr. He's a guy looking for a take under 280 characters that'll stand out from partisan bickering. There's nothing heroic about being an attention whore.

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I think your ramblings about whataboutism are incoherent and I can't find a nice way to respond.
Nope. They are completely accurate. If you don't see how perpetuating false moral equivalencies is bad for society then I don't know what to tell you.
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:50 PM   #111
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Originally Posted by ASPoker8 View Post
Imagine thinking that criticism of entrenched power/horrible institutions is a sign that you have your head up your ass.

The people who think GG is a Russian stooge are complete idiots, but if you're on board with them, you wouldn't be the first from this forum!
Greenwald being a Russian agent is easily the most charitable interpretation of his record the last two years. Because otherwise you have to conclude that he actually believes Hilary and Democrats are much worse for society than Trump. That makes him a full blown deplorable.
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:06 PM   #112
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Greenwald being a Russian agent is easily the most charitable interpretation of his record the last two years.
It isn't out of the realm of possibility. However, I think the fact that he's an attention whore who cares more about his own notoriety than actually doing anything about the problems he's constantly pointing out is a more sensible explanation.
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:48 PM   #113
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Greenwald being a Russian agent is easily the most charitable interpretation of his record the last two years. Because otherwise you have to conclude that he actually believes Hilary and Democrats are much worse for society than Trump. That makes him a full blown deplorable.
This is profoundly stupid. Obviously Greenwald is not a Russian agent. Obviously he thinks that Trump/Rs are worse for society than Hillary/Ds.

A lot of people in this forum have broken brains, pretty awesome.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:08 PM   #114
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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This is profoundly stupid. Obviously Greenwald is not a Russian agent. Obviously he thinks that Trump/Rs are worse for society than Hillary/Ds.

A lot of people in this forum have broken brains, pretty awesome.
It is not even a little bit obvious. It would is obvious, though, Russia was the driving force in exploiting the Snowden documents and Russia ended up recruiting greenwald to do their hiding and have so ever since.

Ironically the only one living in Russia is the one who is least likely to be bought and paid by Russia. Assange and Greenwald, however are clearly tools of Russia’s foreign policy machine.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:15 PM   #115
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

It's Louise Mensch status itt forreal, I love it.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:22 PM   #116
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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This is profoundly stupid. Obviously Greenwald is not a Russian agent. Obviously he thinks that Trump/Rs are worse for society than Hillary/Ds.

A lot of people in this forum have broken brains, pretty awesome.
How about posting a link to current article and a definitive quote? Because you are being out-cited right now.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:26 PM   #117
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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This is profoundly stupid. Obviously Greenwald is not a Russian agent. Obviously he thinks that Trump/Rs are worse for society than Hillary/Ds.

A lot of people in this forum have broken brains, pretty awesome.
Want to bet on how many times he has attacked Dems vs. attacked Trump vs. defended Trump from collusion, in the past year? This on the backdrop of R's currently controlling all branches of government and potentially cheating their way through future elections. You said GG is against entrenched power. How then does this make any sense?

I mean, if GG posted here he would be compared to Ikes on a daily basis. Half the forum wants Keed to be banned, and Greenwald is even on another level! Keep in mind as Sub pointed out, this forum hates centrist Dems more than anyone. If he was being at all reasonable, they would be rallying to his cause (as many people did for a long time).
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:29 PM   #118
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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It is not even a little bit obvious. It would is obvious, though, Russia was the driving force in exploiting the Snowden documents and Russia ended up recruiting greenwald to do their hiding and have so ever since.
Actually that's not the case. Snowden was trying to go to South America to seek asylum and got his passport canceled while in Moscow, preventing him from flying onward. He then relied on assistance from somebody associated with Assange and was able to gain temporary residency in Russia after staying in the international transfer area for X amount of days.

I could buy Assange having some pull with Russia and probably be in their pocket whether as a price to pay for Snowden not getting ****ed or for his own personal gain. But why buy Greenwald off? The guy has no readership compared to actual journalists and only makes a dent in the mainstream as a token liberal on FOX News. Really, he doesn't give a **** what happens to Snowden. Glenn got his Pulitizer and notoriety for that story. What happens to Snowden has no impact on him.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:33 PM   #119
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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I could buy Assange having some pull with Russia and probably be in their pocket whether as a price to pay for Snowden not getting ****ed or for his own personal gain. But why buy Greenwald off? The guy has no readership compared to actual journalists and only makes a dent in the mainstream as a token liberal on FOX News. Really, he doesn't give a **** what happens to Snowden. Glenn got his Pulitizer and notoriety for that story. What happens to Snowden has no impact on him.
My personal theory that has no evidence to support it is that Putin either has dirt on GG's politician husband or is funneling money into his campaign.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:38 PM   #120
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Want to bet on how many times he has attacked Dems vs. attacked Trump vs. defended Trump from collusion, in the past year? This on the backdrop of R's currently controlling all branches of government and potentially cheating their way through future elections. You said GG is against entrenched power. How then does this make any sense?

I mean, if GG posted here he would be compared to Ikes on a daily basis. Half the forum wants Keed to be banned, and Greenwald is even on another level! Keep in mind as Sub pointed out, this forum hates centrist Dems more than anyone. If he was being at all reasonable, they would be rallying to his cause (as many people did for a long time).
Attacking Ds often does not equate to support of Rs. GG doesn't defend Trump, he defends against claims made without evidence (like he always has). His role is not to cheerlead for the D's because the R's have immense power and that you think it is says more about you than it does him.

GG is to your left and to the left of this forum, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about tbh.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:40 PM   #121
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

Attacking D's all day while R's have all the power does equate to boosting R's however you want to look at it.

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GG is to your left and to the left of this forum, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about tbh.
He's to the left like Shuffle is "to the left."
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:45 PM   #122
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

Your argument is that you're really mad that he isn't a cheerleader for your team. Ok, cool.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:50 PM   #123
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Your argument is that you're really mad that he isn't a cheerleader for your team. Ok, cool.
Your argument is that GGs non-stop attack of Ds and complete non-attack of Trump is proof he's more left than this forum. Ok, cool
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:52 PM   #124
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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It isn't out of the realm of possibility. However, I think the fact that he's an attention whore who cares more about his own notoriety than actually doing anything about the problems he's constantly pointing out is a more sensible explanation.
The Intercept (along with many other smaller orgz who deserve credit too) did a great job re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:53 PM   #125
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Re: Glenn Greenwald is the greatest journalist of our time

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Your argument is that you're really mad that he isn't a cheerleader for your team. Ok, cool.
Yes, we judge people on the battles they fight. If someone says here that they are for universal health care, but they never get into impassioned arguments for it like they do other issues, it's plain to see that universal health care isn't all that important to them. It may even be indicative of someone being a disingenuous troll claiming to have liberal values but really arguing for conservatives. Likewise, if someone spends the vast majority of their verbiage scolding liberals, then a few token remarks about disagreeing with conservatives carry less weight.
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