Ironically you highlight the very reason why the euro is problematic, DUCY?

I always forget that Labour bankrupted the country back then too. Why do people ever vote for that party, how many second chances are idiots gonna keep giving them </rant>

This is pretty lol given that Portugal just announced that it needs a bailout, just like Greece, Ireland and soon to be Spain. Not at "default levels"? What, exactly, do you think, "We need a bailout" means?

Good job at making up numbers.

Yeah, but it's not a TRUE bailout!

http://jezebel.com/#!5369395/whoopi-...asnt-rape+rape

These were 2010 projections from 2009.



Total EU net liabilities on and off balance sheet were projected to hit 470% in 2010. The situation has deteriorated materially since then. If it isn't above 500%, it's in the noise.

We were clearly talking about the entire EU...

Also, do you have a link to the research? I wonder what constitutes a future liability.

https://www.sgresearch.com/publicati...C7003152D1.pub

Pension and health benefits that are not pre-funded, most likely. Governments love to promise pension benefits that will be paid in someone else's term of office but not record a cost in today's budget.

Essentially.

I'm Irish and it's not 'Ireland' the state that's being bailed out - it's Irish banking which ****ed things up and it was huge European banks that pumped money into the Irish banking system like it was going out of fashion.

Now when you look at our particular case you have to wonder who's bailing out who. In reality it is Irish tax payers who are bailing out banks not the other way around.

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=h...w=1143&bih=549

I would think the premise "welfare states don't work" would be disputed more than accepted on almost any campus. Life under "welfare states" has been better for more people that at any time in human history. Show me one populace in the world demanding an end to them? What country is worse off in human terms since adopting welfare policies? Even in the United States no large portion of the population is saying end medicare, social security, and medicaid.

Did Britain abandon the welfare state in 1976? Did the 1980s conservative wave in Europe produce an end to welfare policies, or even a curbing?

You can dislike it all you want, but the modern nation-state is built on welfare, in the US and the EU. When I see masses in the street demanding an end to pensions and health care in the EU I will come blow you with all possible zealousness as long as you set a date by which you pay in kind.

Shocking!

Corelation != causation. There is more capital than there has ever been at any time in human history.*

A populace demanding an end to their free ponies? You aren't likely to find one. This is somehow evidence that welfare statism will not turn out to be a disaster when everyone realizes the bills cannot be paid?

Well Nazi Germany was a welfare state. That turned out poorly.

Again, that people like their free ponies is not evidence that handing out free ponies is good policy or sustainable.

And they are in the midst of collapse now. Or did you not notice?

I'm flattered, but I'm not into dudes.

In before "welfare states cause capital accumulation."

We can argue correlation and causation here. I would make the claim that welfare states only exist because technology advanced enough to make it affordable. If worsening demographics change to make that less affordable, I would bet that the benefits get cut.

.

Too bad the numbers are estimates from 2005 and I couldn't find how they calculate future revenue. It's probably hidden away in some OECD report, the OECD produces some great reports but I've seen third parties butcher their numbers on a regular basis.

And you think that the situation might have IMPROVED since 2005???

You may have missed it, but the world banking system melted down and ended up on sovereign balance sheets while whacking GDP.

You have an interesting method of apologizing.

Uh, all businesses that offer retirement pensions are doing so against future earnings, not against a magic safe full of gold. So are all such businesses insolvent, too, in your opinion?

Any private company that offers pensions has to record costs as they are accrued. Many public pension plan costs are not recognized by governments until the benefits are paid. This is a well understood flaw in government accounting. I can explain in more detail if you're interested.

lol wat

Do you understand how private pension plans work? Employee payroll deductions and matching funds are invested in accounts that, you know, exist. They don't run like the Federal government ponzi scheme where the "contributionts" are shipped right out the door as transfer payments to the guys whose money they've blown on coke and hookers and wars for 45 years. In the private sector when employers take money out of their employees pension fund they go to jail.

In the private sector companies have to keep liabilities on their books according to gaap.

I mean, do you have any idea the rate at which these liabilities are increasing? It's about $5T every year and the rate is increasing.

And I never said the US is insolvent, which it clearly isn't and can never be as long as it issues it's own currency and raises the debt ceiling.

You are aware that the Fed is monetizing more than 80% of net Treasury issuance, right?

I would say enough food and production to sustain 6 billion plus humans exists because of technology. A peaceful and just society isn't possible without a welfare state. We aren't many generations removed from when everyone who could work had to work to sustain basic life. Now, we live in a world where all of our food is grown and harvested by under 1% of the population. I have no math on what is "essential" to sustain the basic needs of life, but its not a big number.
What other method than a redistributive welfare state can you recommend to give a desirable life to the masses of the unneeded?

I'm not "into dudes" either, I am just trying to communicate my conviction that the EU is better off and better equipped for being a 21st century rich "area" than the US.

As for Nazi Germany, moving to the welfare state improved things from the Weimar for the average German until a lunatic began a war. And, Germans massively chose to continue with a welfare state postwar, and are arguably the best off rich country after the last recession. Policy in Germany is rather sanely debated and worked on by labour, business, and educated technocrats. There is no end of the world Depression tearing up civilization. Last I heard water, food, electricity, and general pleasant ease were still the norm in the EU, even in Greece.

I don't think it matters what the masses want. While it is currently possible to give everyone a nice lifestyle in first world countries, I don't think that would be possible for everyone worldwide.

Unfortunately I don't have time to write a treatise on how bad your knowledge of history is. Suffice it to say that if **** was so awesome in the German welfare state, Hitler would never have gotten elected. Furthermore, what do you think that whole anti-Jew thing was about? The Jews were made the scapegoats, they got the blame. The blame for what you may ask. The ****ty economy, for one.

Also, the Iron Triangle of Big Government, Big Labor, and Big Business, administered by technocrats. I wonder where I have read of something like that before . . . I wonder if there is a name for such an economic system? Fascistinating topic.

If you think life in Greece right now is one of "general pleasant ease" then you are sadly mistaken.

Actually, it will probably be the EU bailing out the USA.

GDP to debt rotation in the Eurozone is 74%
GDP to debt rotation for the USA is 95%

S&P just lowered the outlook on the US creditworthiness

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...y.html?hpid=z2

And just look at the Euro, 1 Euro is worth 1,44$. As the Euro was launched 10 years Ago it was 1Euro for 1$. So if you think Europe is ****ed that counts espacially for the USA


No it ain´t. The reason for the fiscal crisis is that the states had to bail out the banks. The Europa Countrys with the welfare states do actually have the worlds best education and highest living standards like Sweden or Denmark.