February LC Thread **Survivor White House Edition** - Page 3 - Politics and Economics

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February LC Thread **Survivor White House Edition**

View Poll Results: Who will NOT survive the month of February?

Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III

9 23.08%

John Kelly

7 17.95%

Kellyanne Conway

1 2.56%

Rex Tillerson

3 7.69%

Jared Kushner

0 0%

Hope Hicks

4 10.26%

Gary Cohn

0 0%

Ryan Zinke

0 0%

Rod Rosenstein

13 33.33%

Write-in

2 5.13%

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02-03-2018 , 10:15 AM

#51

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperUberBob

Just use Tor.

This is quite different from banning people from welfare based on drug addiction. Providing basic welfare is essential to survival. People can survive without an education.

Assuming that the date of the test is known in advance, people who aren't full-blown addicts should be able to temporarily abstain from illicit drug use and pass the test.

But there are still multiple problems. One is prospective students having to pay for the drug test. People might respond with, "What's $100 when it comes to a free education?" but people who say that don't spend every penny they have to feed children and keep the lights on in their home. It's not like West Virginia is a state of high-income earners.

Another issue is that the drug test doesn't just test for illegal drugs but also prescribed opioids. This implies that everybody who takes opioids is an addict. Plenty of people take them without being addicts and would have no trouble passing college courses.

The notion that a free education is all of a sudden going to be a wake-up call that encourages addicts to get clean or deter people from taking up illicit drugs is ridiculous. As mentioned, some people have prescriptions for opioids and take them as prescribed. It's a solution that grossly oversimplifies the problem.

It's still better than nothing. There are impoverished people not addicted to drugs who want an education who will benefit. But anybody thinking that this will solve or contribute to solving the opioid epidemic is an idiot.

It's just another useless roadblock to providing universal benefits that even the advocates of the roadblock give spurious reasons for it to exist. The real reason, of course, is the concession to the hard American sense of deservedness which means we have to propose that either people have to do something to deserve it (Hillary's plan that required 10 hours of hard labor) or we can't allow certain people to have it because we have to arbitrarily split between the morally deserving for fear of giving money to the undeserving.

Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; 02-03-2018 at 10:22 AM.

02-03-2018 , 10:27 AM

#52

SuperUberBob

Not interesting enough

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 48,217

What's frustrating is the fact that there are law-abiding citizens who cannot use the program because they take opioids as prescribed by a doctor for debilitating pain. All opioid users shouldn't suffer because a small percentage of them either move on to heroin or become outright addicts.

I suggest watching "Chasing Heroin" on the approach Seattle is taking to the problem. It's pretty fascinating. I wonder if there are updated numbers that show how the program has progressed since the documentary's release.

02-03-2018 , 11:15 AM

#53

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,713

We're talking about community college. Jeez. When I was a youngster in Califirnia it was like $5/unit. This should be no more controversial than getting a free library card without a drug test.

02-03-2018 , 11:25 AM

#54

stinkubus

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 4,422

Not every state funds their CCs so well. I know that CA is way ahead of the curve on this. My brother did his bachelors in the UC system and he paid less for the whole thing than what I paid for one semester of private school.

02-03-2018 , 11:51 AM

#55

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,984

I started my programming career with two classes at SF City college. Cost: $13 per credit hour for $78 total.

02-03-2018 , 12:01 PM

#56

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,713

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkubus

I got my bachelor's in the UC. My first year tuition was $1300. I'm old though. It's almost $13k now.

My daughter is at a private school and gets a lot of aid and scholarship, but her yearly fees including the dorms are over $70k.

02-03-2018 , 12:03 PM

#57

SuperUberBob

Not interesting enough

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 48,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkubus

The article itself quoted somebody talking about a history of budget cuts to the education system in WV.

02-03-2018 , 12:11 PM

#58

stinkubus

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 4,422

That wouldn't surprise me. PA has done the same.

02-03-2018 , 12:51 PM

#59

Johnny Truant

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Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 8,058

The problem is those that don't need the program do not have to be tested to go to school. Is there a reason opiate use among poor people is going to be helped by denying them education, but it won't provide the same benefits to those able to pay?

02-03-2018 , 01:07 PM

#60

ScreaminAsian

For President

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 33,333

02-03-2018 , 01:44 PM

#61

DudeImBetter

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Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 10,664

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

or if you use any streaming services and want to access region-locked content, go for it.

Explain?

02-03-2018 , 01:44 PM

#62

SuperUberBob

Not interesting enough

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 48,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkubus

That wouldn't surprise me. PA has done the same.

I lived in PA during my formative years and aside from Pittsburgh and Philly, the only difference between them and the deep south is the accent.

The transplanted New Yorkers in the north and northeast of the state are almost entirely conservative and I assume Trump supporters (I haven't been back there for years).

02-03-2018 , 01:49 PM

#63

DudeImBetter

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Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 10,664

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

What is your reasoning for denying education to people who take drugs?

I'm concerned that junkies would fail out at an escalated rate and the money would be often wasted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

Radical idea, but maybe we should spend money on getting junkies clean so they don’t die, and then worry about educating them.

This makes a lot of sense to me.

TBH I'm not sure how many true "junkies" would get through whatever red tape and whatever is required to secure funding and sign up for college in the first place.

Guess I've got no hard opinion on this one.

02-03-2018 , 02:01 PM

#64

jalfrezi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 12,382

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeImBetter

Explain?

Many VPNs allow you to choose the country of the server, thus bypassing any regional restrictions.

02-03-2018 , 02:02 PM

#65

DudeImBetter

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 10,664

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

but her yearly fees including the dorms are over $70k.

please tell me she's not getting a degree in French literature.

02-03-2018 , 02:12 PM

#66

Jiggymike

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 13,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by markksman

Not politically related but one of my best friends since childhood is coming into town this weekend and we are looking for a place to watch the worst super bowl ever in downtown Fort Worth. I live in the boonies south of Dallas these days so not really sure what might be a good spot in Fort Worth.

Money not an object but downtown area preferred.

Torchy’s tacos? The Wood Shed? The only 2 places I know in Ft Worth

02-03-2018 , 02:12 PM

#67

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,713

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeImBetter

please tell me she's not getting a degree in French literature.

Like I said, there's a lot of aid and scholarships. Her (my) expense is more like $15k.

She just started, but right now English literature, international relations, and philosophy are all contenders. So, not like on track to make a lot of money.

02-03-2018 , 03:12 PM

#68

uDevil

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Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6,941

I don't agree that money spent on education for someone who doesn't graduate is wasted. Also nothing wrong with French literature. The drugs thing is largely irrelevant. My only objection to free education is it gives Sklansky a larger number of people to lord over as state school graduates that he can beat at LSAT.

Last edited by uDevil; 02-03-2018 at 03:40 PM.

02-03-2018 , 04:02 PM

#69

zikzak

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,198

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeImBetter

I'm concerned that junkies would fail out at an escalated rate and the money would be often wasted. This makes a lot of sense to me.

TBH I'm not sure how many true "junkies" would get through whatever red tape and whatever is required to secure funding and sign up for college in the first place.

Guess I've got no hard opinion on this one.

Why are we conceding the (wrong) premise that junkies are neither worthy nor capable of productive lives? Most opioid addicts function just fine so long as they have ready access to their drugs. All these people spending their days in shooting galleries and OD'ing on fentanyl were junkies back when they were on prescription oxys too. It's only when they get cut off from a legal supply that their lives start to spiral out of control.

02-03-2018 , 04:15 PM

#70

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,713

That's definitely true. If someone wants to compile a list of achievements of drug addicts it's going to be a big project.

Still, on the rare occasion that the junkiest junky living in the alley behind a crack house actually wants to attend college classes, Jesus Christ, put them at the head of the line.

02-03-2018 , 04:17 PM

#71

Jiggymike

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 13,420

Posted in other thread but I think Trump fires/attempts to fire Rosenstein and Sessions resigns/threatens to in response. I think Sessions has had enough of the clown show and is ready to get off - outside of a little racism he doesn’t seem to be getting much from being attorney general except arguing with the Dotard

02-03-2018 , 04:27 PM

#72

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,713

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggymike

Despite his practice during The Apprentice, he's clearly afraid to actually fire people or take any responsibility. Whoever plays Robert Bork for Trump is probably going to have to show a little bit of initiative.

02-03-2018 , 04:34 PM

#73

Jiggymike

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 13,420

He fired Comey but I do think he’s likely to wuss out if he gets any push back from Sessions, hence the qualifiers above. Sessions might just use it as pretense to leave though