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Old 01-07-2018, 11:26 AM   #76
RainierWolfcastle
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by cilldroichid View Post
A quick google search shows the average hourly rate of a call center worker in the Philippines is $1.75 compared to $12.00 in the US. Would it put off companies investing in The Philippines that much if there was some sort of regulation that doubled the average rate to $3.50 an hour?
It would certainly have an impact on their decision making. There are other options besides The Philippines and the US and there are other considerations besides wages. Its not an either/or situation.

Dismissing that having to double the average wage would have an impact is pretty ridiculous. It would almost certainly reduce the number of jobs available to some extent. I find it improbable that there aren't call center workers in The Philippines with a marginal labor product that is less than twice their wage.
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:26 AM   #77
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

can we get a ****ing excise on this discussion about capitalism and wages pls, and talk more about what a scumbag cuck stephen miller is
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:51 AM   #78
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by RainierWolfcastle View Post
I didn't say they were, but I do think in the narrative of factories in poor countries being evil it is often left out that workers choose to work in these places because its their best option, regardless of whether it is understood or not.
This is the exact reason companies can exploit them.
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:54 AM   #79
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

RAINIER STFU AND EVERYBODY ELSE STOP REPLYING TO HIM
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:56 AM   #80
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

No one forces you to read posts. Grow the **** up.
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:58 AM   #81
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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No one forces you to read posts. Grow the **** up.
How about developing enough self-awareness to realize that you've dragged an off-topic tangent that already got excised once waaaaaaaay too ****ing far and you're annoying the ever living **** out of the entire thread?
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:59 AM   #82
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

You have a choice to not read my **** posts, so it's fine for me to keep **** posting.
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:59 AM   #83
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

Yea knock it off with this off tangent garbage. Go start a new thread or something.
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:59 AM   #84
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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This is the exact reason companies can exploit them.
The exact same could be said of any job, which is what makes the term "exploit" in this context emotive and misleading.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:02 PM   #85
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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How about developing enough self-awareness to realize that you've dragged an off-topic tangent that already got excised once waaaaaaaay too ****ing far and you're annoying the ever living **** out of the entire thread?
I see no reason to not respond when people address posts I've made. Its not exactly difficult to skip over the posts you don't want to read. The human brain is capable of amazing things.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:03 PM   #86
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

Dude. Go away.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:18 PM   #87
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by RainierWolfcastle View Post
Another poster who apparently has something to say but can't be bothered to articulate it.

At what wage is it appropriate to hire people in poor countries?
Widdle Rainy needs a lot of ****ing handholding because as a high school economics teacher he's apparently BAFFLED by encountering criticism of company towns and sweatshops, concepts he apparently believed were universally celebrated before this thread.

I bet his students are just getting ace education, The Fountainhead AND Atlas Shrugged.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:19 PM   #88
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by iron81 View Post
#ImWithRainier

If the factory job is marginally better than working the rice paddy, good has been done. QED
This is the actual sort of dude who is going to leave the Dems to vote for Trump in 2020, btw.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:28 PM   #89
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by +rep_lol View Post
can we get a ****ing excise on this discussion about capitalism and wages pls,
Yes, just waking up tho. Gimme a minute.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:54 PM   #90
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Re: Exploitation of 3rd World Workers or whatever

I suppose if the people in the Chinese countryside are unhappy with agricultural policy, Chinese development patterns, the distribution of schools and other services, labor laws, influence of wealthy individuals and companies, and corruption of government officials it's ok because they get to choose between frying pan and fryer. Or they could always get together in Tienamen Square to state their grievances.

But, again, China is not Haiti and RainerWolfcastle, you've taken an absolutist position here "non-slaves can't be exploited". But you're trying to have it the other way. You're pretending other people are saying it's impossible to employ someone fairly in developing countries for less than the highest wages in the world.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:02 PM   #91
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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This is the actual sort of dude who is going to leave the Dems to vote for Trump in 2020, btw.
Screw you
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:04 PM   #92
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Re: Exploitation of 3rd World Workers or whatever

Without reading the excised part, I'll sum up what this thread is about.

Like all good alleged arguments in Politardia, peeps are squabbling not about what goes on in the world, but instead what the true-one-and-only-official-definition-of-this-or-that-word. In this case, the word 'exploit'.
  1. In the sense: When A has some advantage (leverage) over B, A can often induce B to give or do something of value to A (exploit). Examples: If the Godfather can arson the mom&pop store (leverage), often he can induce Mom & Pop to pay 'insurance' (exploit). In hold'em, if I have the villain's hand dominated (leverage), I can often use that advantage to stack his chips (exploit). If I can embezzle 10c per $1000 transaction (leverage), I can profit from one or both sides (exploit). If a perv has hire/fire power (leverage), he can often extort applicants for sex (exploit), I I'm a landlord (leverage), I can collect rent from tenants (exploit).

    Note that #1 is simply structural observation of a certain kind of activity. It says nothing about the goodness/badness/shouldness/shouldntness/wrongness/etc/etc of the activities. I also doesn't mention the participants pre- or post-activity status. If I can steel 5c from the tip jar, I'm exploiting whoever is being tipped... it doesn't matter if I'm a billionaire ripping off a street busker, or if the street busker is ripping off me.

  2. Along the lines of: It is logically impossible for A to exploit B unless both (i) the activity is not 'voluntary', as defined in that particularly odious manner LTers do, and (ii) B's post-activity status isn't actually worse than his pre-activity status.

    As those of us who remember the bad old days of the ACers... I think we know where this road leads... yep, The Flourishing Market in Children.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:04 PM   #93
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by FlyWf View Post
This is the actual sort of dude who is going to leave the Dems to vote for Trump in 2020, btw.
I know you're trying to insult iron81 here, but iirc he was quite an ardent HRC supporter. I don't mean that as a defense of iron81, but as dems do it too.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:54 PM   #94
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by RainierWolfcastle View Post
I think the push-back is largely a semantics beef over my reaction to the word "exploit". In your case, you're just a simple-minded, semi-literate moron.

I also think Americans and people from other rich countries struggle to understand why someone would choose to work in harsh conditions for what they see as an extraordinarily low wage.

There's frequently a disconnect with lefties regarding this issue. On one hand they think companies should produce their shoes or whatever in countries with decent wages but at the same time want to improve the plight of these workers who would be definitively worse off if the factories left.

There's no reason for labor-intensive industries to invest in third world countries with low wages if you are going to be paying workers first world wages. Companies don't exist to transform the working class of poor countries.
I'm, like, smart.
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:20 PM   #95
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Re: Exploitation of 3rd World Workers or whatever

Rainier, are you ethically cool with minimum wage laws in the US?
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:56 PM   #96
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by FlyWf View Post
Widdle Rainy needs a lot of ****ing handholding because as a high school economics teacher he's apparently BAFFLED by encountering criticism of company towns and sweatshops, concepts he apparently believed were universally celebrated before this thread.

I bet his students are just getting ace education, The Fountainhead AND Atlas Shrugged.
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:57 PM   #97
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
I know you're trying to insult iron81 here, but iirc he was quite an ardent HRC supporter. I don't mean that as a defense of iron81, but as dems do it too.
I don't follow. I wasn't trying to insult him, I was predicting his future. And obviously if he wasn't already a Dem the entire thing makes no sense, he has to be a Dem to switch. That's not "Dems do it too", only Dems can switch from Dem to GOP.
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:58 PM   #98
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Screw you
That you said this to me but not Rainer is why I'm right, kid.
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Old 01-07-2018, 04:12 PM   #99
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by FlyWf View Post
I don't follow. I wasn't trying to insult him, I was predicting his future. And obviously if he wasn't already a Dem the entire thing makes no sense, he has to be a Dem to switch. That's not "Dems do it too", only Dems can switch from Dem to GOP.
I guess whether or not he switches to Trump in 2020 will depend on who the Dems nominate. They are likely to nominate someone who fully agrees with him and Ranier.

(And despite the +1, I don't think iron is the same as Ranier. "ECON 101" is a powerful drug and there are differences between casual users, addicts, and pushers. Unlike Ranier or guys like dessin d'enfant, I would think/hope that iron would have held his nose and voted for Bernie over Trump.)
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Old 01-07-2018, 04:16 PM   #100
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Re: Exploitation of 3rd World Workers or whatever

You'll know I voted for Trump when he gets 500 EVs.
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