Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Key
So, aside from disproving you, you're still hanging by a thread to the caveat all while not knowing how often it applies?
Cool story
It didn't disprove me at all. My analysis stopped at the amount of energy required to generate the FUEL to move a car 21 miles. For EV, that's electricity. For ICE, that's gasoline. It takes a lot less energy to get enough into an ICE for 21 miles than it takes to get enough electricity into an EV for 21 miles.
It was a response to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
It takes 6kwh to refine one gallon of gasoline. A Tesla, an electric sports car not an economy car, goes 3 miles on a kwh. It goes 18 miles on the electricity used JUST TO REFINE a gallon of gas.
I am not saying modern cars' are more environmentally friendly than EVs. EVs are superior on at least one front. Electric motors are by far more efficient (80+% vs. about 20%) than ICE at converting fuel to kinetic energy and produces fewer byproducts in the process (EV=no fumes).
My problem with misleading statements like microbet's is they end up hurting the goal of lowering carbon emissions in at least two ways.
1. it underestimates the potential for gains in ICE efficiency. Gasoline consumption per mile travelled can be cut by almost half by pushing ICE far closer to theoretical limits.
2. it vastly underplays the difficulties and costs associated with adopting an electric vehicle. We've seen what happens when costs are not accurately accounted for with crystal.
Long term I am actually strongly pro-EV because I think it's a much more adaptive technology even though in the short term it probably has limited impact. But by moving us to EV, first with hybrids, we develop the infrastructure necessary to replace the energy generation source. It's a lot easier to replace a coal plant with a nuclear plant than to rebuild all the gas stations to supply other forms of fuel.
The question of overall environmental impact is far more difficult to answer. But microbet's statement is grossly misleading at best.
WRT to the Sierra Club document, I meant to point out about 70% (it's over 60% even in Cali I believe still) of US electricity is still fossil fuel generated, 40% on coal alone. The other 30% is mostly oil and natural gas, which is ~20-30% cleaner than coal on average. Their caveat applies to most of Americans and can be extended to say the benefit is small for most of the rest.
Last edited by grizy; 06-25-2015 at 11:24 AM.