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Drunk Sex and Rape Drunk Sex and Rape

05-02-2014 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Man, if you told most people that someone could be a victim of one of the most traumatizing kinds of crimes and yet in the vast majority of cases the authorities would be unable to reach a conclusion on whether or not a crime even occurred let alone who perpetrated it, they would call that a failure of the system rather than calling it absolutely correct.
Only if you didn't think about it for more than 3 seconds. Are you going to propose a beyond reasonable doubt except when accused of rape standard for the justice system? If not, I have no idea what you're getting at.
05-02-2014 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
so fly's characterization of this guy as a random dude, not entirely accurate.
looooooool ikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
ikes never got around to explaining how impressive it was that Brett Sokolow was Executive Director of the Association of Title IX Administators, which made him an EXPERT that we all had to just implicitly trust about these 5 consecutive examples of whatever it is the problem is. In the letter it seemed like it was not requiring mens rea before discipline, ikes spent most of this thread complaining about some imaginary drunk sex=rape rules, who knows.

It doesn't matter, because ATIXA is not some sort of government or academic group, it's a private trade group, and it is entirely funded by a grant from a consulting group known as NHERN.

I will give you one and only one guess to name the CEO of that consulting group.
It seems like Fly knew a long time ago exactly who he is? Nice try though
05-02-2014 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
thanks for your brilliant insight phill, it's also why women will go to the school but not the police.
I certainly look forward to your cite for this Ikes.
05-02-2014 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
Is reasonable doubt a requirement for punishing students for other rule breaking, like plagiarism or cheating on a test?

Because, like, this isnt the justice system we are talking about here.
Jesus phill I'm explaining WHY THE JUSTICE SYSTEM WON'T WORK FOR SCHOOLS

Good grief dude get your **** together.
05-02-2014 , 04:10 PM
I deleted after going back before I saw your post. Honestly your reply obfuscates your point.

Still waiting on that cite btw. I think the requirement round here is 5 minutes or less now.
05-02-2014 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
I deleted after going back before I saw your post. Honestly your reply obfuscates your point.

Still waiting on that cite btw. I think the requirement round here is 5 minutes or less now.
There's been at least one case cited where a woman said she didn't go to the police for precisely that reason. If you want to take it as an argument or position instead of a fact feel free. It means little or nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I didn't obfuscate ****. You just failed son.
05-02-2014 , 04:16 PM
Do you mean the case earlier where she sought advice and the advice was that anal rape isnt rape in SC?

Because:
1, no she didnt choose the university because it was more likely to convict, she got ****ty advice on what crime was committed against her from the ****ty university in a weird ****ty state with weird ****ty laws
2, that was a woman, single
3, you still didnt even cite it

Keep going Ikes. Even the most generous scorer only has you citing one single case so far. Explain how women are choosing the easier University trial that can convict someone of 20 hours counselling instead of the police which I am told has slightly harsher punishments.
05-02-2014 , 04:23 PM
well, that's two then actually. The two cases specifically brought up itt.

Also, it was still a crime, just termed sexual assault or something. Your understanding of this subject has been shown to be completely lacking. Simmer down. You seem to think that I'm attacking the process here, and I'm not. The civil standard used by schools should be lower than criminal liability. None of this is controversial.
05-02-2014 , 04:24 PM
Women choose the university not because of lower punishment, but because of greater privacy for the victim.
05-02-2014 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Women choose the university not because of lower punishment, but because of greater privacy for the victim.
CITATION NEEDED!!!!!

/Phil

No doubt that plays a role. Chances of success are much higher as well. The punishments are lower, but it does frequently remove the immediate problem of going to school with your attacker.
05-02-2014 , 04:30 PM
Note that even when Buzzfeed got to ask the guy about his examples, it ended up just being that he is aware of five cases where he disagreed with the outcome. Not like a systematic problem, not a misguided rule being properly enforced, the guy is aware of 5 hearings where he disagreed with the result.

FIVE consercutive exermples!!!!!!
05-02-2014 , 04:53 PM
So you're telling me that ikes started this thread totally sure that this "expert"'s 5 cases were symptoms of rampant discrimination against men and evidence that tons of schools have consent rules stating that drunk sex is unconditionally rape, and it just turns out to be that this Sokolow guy disagreed with a few outcomes and still won't give any evidence that discrimination is happening?

05-02-2014 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokolow's own words, via buzzfeed
The campus policies he referred to in his newsletter were based on “intoxication” rather than “incapacitation” and thus flawed, he said. In some cases, the hearing panel was biased against the male student; in the other, the panel “jumped to the conclusion” that the complainant was incapacitated, a common issue, he said.

“I don’t think these women are making false accusations; they are making accusations of things they believe happened to them and they believe are violations of policy,” he said. “But just because someone thinks they’ve been victimized doesn’t make it so.
Somewhere sputnikes is jizzing himself reading this
05-02-2014 , 04:56 PM
In my English class this semester, we talked about A Streetcar named Desire. One girl in my class said that Blanche was asking to get raped because she was flirting with Stanley while he was drunk when Stella was giving birth. The professor looked at her for 10 seconds w/o saying a word, shook her head and changed the subject.
05-02-2014 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Somewhere sputnikes is jizzing himself reading this
It's what he says in the article linked in the OP. I have no idea why you'd be surprised.
05-02-2014 , 06:08 PM
Then we should probably amend this as:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
And you're completely missing the point of the article. Let me slow it down for you. Drunken sex != rape. Males are being discriminated against. Schools are getting this wrong repeatedly.*
*For very small values of "repeatedly."
05-02-2014 , 06:16 PM
keep raising that bar wook
05-02-2014 , 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer

All your valiant work must be rewarded soon right?
05-02-2014 , 07:40 PM
I actually agree with you, sputnik. Talking about ways to reduce rape on the internet is way, way less likely to directly result in my penis being found inside of a vagina compared to getting a girl blackout drunk and then taking her back to my place for a jolly good raping.
05-02-2014 , 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
I actually agree with you, sputnik. Talking about ways to reduce rape on the internet is way.
Im all for reducing rape on the internet... Who is to blame though, the 1s or the 0s?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
getting a girl blackout drunk and then taking her back to my place for a jolly good raping.
Im not sure but you probably shouldnt do that.

Speaking from my own perspective though i am usually the one that is blackout drunk and has to wake up hoping that this time it was a 10 that found me appealing enough to go home with me. Sadly that rarely happens and what i find next to me is someone that i would never have slept with unless i was drunk out of my mind.

Spoiler:


If the girl was just as drunk as me who took advantage of who in that case?
05-02-2014 , 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputnik3000
All your valiant work must be rewarded soon right?
Tonight, in fact!
05-02-2014 , 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputnik3000
If the girl was just as drunk as me who took advantage of who in that case?
I dunno. Does she remember it, and does she feel raped as opposed to just having made a bad decision?
05-02-2014 , 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
I dunno. Does she remember it, and does she feel raped as opposed to just having made a bad decision?
We where both to drunk to remember it but luckily my hidden camera shows that we had sex.

Would her feelings dictate if it was rape or not and decide if a crime was committed?
05-02-2014 , 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputnik3000
my hidden camera shows that we had sex.
05-02-2014 , 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputnik3000
We where both to drunk to remember it but luckily my hidden camera shows that we had sex.

Would her feelings dictate if it was rape or not and decide if a crime was committed?
I may be so bold to assert that her feelings on the matter are relatively important as to whether or not a crime was committed.

      
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