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Climate Change Skeptic; Change My Mind Climate Change Skeptic; Change My Mind

02-01-2019 , 12:34 PM
I live 600 miles from ocean and I look forward to my beachfront property.
02-01-2019 , 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
"We'll adapt" is absurdly vague. Most people don't think climate change will cause human extinction, at least not for at least hundreds of years. "We'll adapt" sounds like you live in Ohio and don't care about the 100000000 people who live in low lying areas and are too poor to build sea walls or move cities.

And of course the cost of adapting to global warming will be a lot greater than the costs of transitioning away from fossil fuels which will save money, address warming, improve air and water quality, human health, and reduce resource conflict.
All of those upsides seem great and all, but what about TOTAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE?!
02-01-2019 , 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
Not climate science or any earth science. Computer science, and some focus in data analysis and statistics.
Have you ever fixed the computer of someone who knows very little about computers and later been criticized by that person because their computer isn't work and thinks it's your fault?
02-01-2019 , 01:32 PM
I am a total pessimist when it comes to stopping climate change. Best we can hope for are small incremental changes that basically do nothing given the scale of the problem. And I am just talking about the US - never mind poorer countries that are trying to lift their populace out of poverty.

Look at the furious reaction in the US to something as minor and minimally disrupting as the ACA, or common sense gun control measures. Now imagine that the govt mandated a $10/gallon gas tax, or that you couldn't run the AC unless it was x degrees, had to install solar panels on your roof, etc. Our country is in total gridlock and we are talking about a "Green New Deal"? Sounds nice but it's also not happening.

Best to focus on mitigation. It's gonna get warmer. We're not reversing this at this already-too-late stage, and I think it's fantasy thinking to imagine otherwise.
02-01-2019 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
Wow, this is why these threads aren't useful. Not my thread anyway.
You are getting a lot of good responses. Saying the thread is not useful because a few posts you do not find useful diminishes all those. It also makes me wonder what you are here for.

Btw could you answer my post in your other thread.

Last edited by batair; 02-01-2019 at 02:42 PM.
02-01-2019 , 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
I love how people are like “technology will solve this” but when the STEM bros tell us that we drastically need reduce CO2 emissions they’re like “nah, I don’t trust all that science stuff.”
ya its truly amazing. its by far my favorite part of the inso hawt take.
02-01-2019 , 04:31 PM
That, and his implicit belief that since technology will make all this go away someday, we are just fine doing nothing today. Like, technology doesn't just appear ex nihilo.
02-01-2019 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ Eckleburg12
2. I don't think higher average global temperatures necessarily cause more extreme or inclement weather.

Every time a bad hurricane or tornado or wildfire or earthquake or tsunami rolls through, global warming people say "Welp! It's getting worse and worse because of global warming!"

According to wikipedia, the deadliest natural disaster in the world (excluding pandemics and famine) was a flood in China in 1931. The deadliest natural disaster in America was a hurricane that hit Texas in the year 1900.

I don't think
Katrina and Maria are evidence that hurricanes are getting stronger ... wildfires are intensifying ...
???? ...
must be man-made global warming!

I think it's possible that rising temperatures could lead to rising sea levels as polar ice melts, but sea levels are another thing that isn't static over the course of the planet's history. Succinctly, I think the relationship between climate change and inclement weather is poorly understood.
Low hanging fruit first: rising temperature factually will lead to rising sea levels, because water expands as it gets warmer. Much of the sea level rise each year is from thermal expansion. It is true that in the absence of humans, sea levels would very likely be rising, but at a reduced pace.

On extreme weather, the IPCC did an interim report, called SREX, on extreme weather. You can read or skim through the "Summary for Policymakers" at this link, which is designed to be at least slightly readable by a lay person:

https://wg1.ipcc.ch/srex/downloads/SREX-All_FINAL.pdf

The long and short of is that we haven't really been able to definitively connect rising temperatures to anything besides more extreme heat and less extreme cold. The most comprehensive study I saw on drought showed a slight decline. No discernible changes in flooding, hurricanes, etc. The media hyping the **** out of storms in relation to global warming has little basis in science, a lot of basis in clicks/eyeballs. It's a view held by some scientists, but it's not a consensus view.

It is postulated that these things will increase/decrease in the future in a warming world, but we're still trying to figure that out.

What is good news, however, is that we've severely reduced human death from natural disasters to very few these days.

Quote:
1: Global temperatures aren't "supposed" to be anything.

Throughout the history of this planet, average temperatures have changed wildly, in both directions. I see global warming champions point to the rising temperatures, as if it's "supposed" to be one thing, but all those carbon emissions are making it Something Else, and that's Bad.
I've made this point before and I won't belabor it, but I agree with the gist of what you are posting, and I think there is a common misconception that the Earth was in some sort of steady state of perfect climate and then dumb humans mucked it up. It certainly can be said that we deleted huge swaths of life off the planet in service of our growth (principally thinking of huge, huge forests that previously existed), and have killed off species. But temperature is trickier. Zooming out, we're in a long-term cycle of ice ages on this planet, where the usual state is a far, far colder planet that kills off much of the life that springs up in the interglacial period (the current interglacial sprung humanity).

Life on this planet ebbs and flows, and temperature changes. We're making it warmer, no doubt about it. And that will lead to bad things happening some places. But one of the inconvenient facts that I think people ignore is that a warmer planet is more receptive to life, in general, and can bring life to places where it's hard to exist. We've already seen plant life begin to flourish.

Quote:
3. I'm not prepared to stop driving and using electricity, are you? ...Hypocrite.

If you want to learn more about energy, read this long but fantastic blog post about electric cars. Basically, about 40% of the world's total energy flow is dedicated to producing electricity, and 2/3rds of that comes from burning carbon-emitting fossil fuels, which is mostly coal. Transportation is almost a third of developed countries' energy flow, and runs nearly entirely on oil.

Now, there are emerging technologies and alternate energy sources (for electricity production AND transportation) that show promise. I support the innovation that the private sector can bring to market. If Elon Musk really builds a more efficient and cheaper alternative, I'd probably buy one. I'm rooting for him to shift the paradigm and change the world.

But in the meantime, I think it's asinine to punish the industry and economies of the developed world (who are also fueling the research and innovation) for carbon emissions. This is a trade-off I'm willing to make to live in 2019. And if climate change really does shift the landscape, then the changing economic conditions will reflect that.
Current energy usage is not something that concerns me, because the world is decarbonizing their economic growth at a fairly rapid pace. Which is to say, that increased carbon emissions aren't needed for increased economic growth anymore. For instance, I doubt many people know that US carbon emissions peaked 12 years ago. Or that it is now cheaper in many parts of the world to build a new solar plant versus a new coal factory. And it will soon be cheaper in many places to replace an existing coal factory with a new solar factory. Battery costs are also dropping dramatically. And as you mentioned, electric cars are about to absolutely explode in production levels. Oil is not a growth industry.

Bloomberg does a "Bloomberg New Energy Outlook" each year, which is interesting if you're reading about it, link here: https://about.bnef.com/new-energy-outlook/ (I think they're way, way too conservative on electric cars, especially given the amount of money that major carmakers are pouring into it, especially a behemoth like Volkswagen)

The future is right in front of us telling us what is going to grow and what is going to wane, which is why the "business as usual" climate scenarios that people bandy about to scare people are so hilariously misleading. These scenarios are predicated upon massive increases in coal usage, massive increases in oil consumption, etc. They project the world in 2100 will be everyone driving around their gas cars non-stop and burning coal to heat their homes. High carbon emission scenarios are just not, not, not going to happen. It will simply be too expensive to locate, extract, transport, and burn carbon versus the alternative. We're witnessing the death throes of coal right now (which will also severely curtail methane emissions)...oil will be next (as a fuel for cars/trucks), natgas will be last.
02-01-2019 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by domer2
I think there is a common misconception that the Earth was in some sort of steady state of perfect climate and then dumb humans mucked it up.
I think this is a strawman in general, and is certainly one as it applies to anyone who has posted ITT, see posts about geological time scales vs. human time scales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by domer2
Life on this planet ebbs and flows, and temperature changes. We're making it warmer, no doubt about it. And that will lead to bad things happening some places. But one of the inconvenient facts that I think people ignore is that a warmer planet is more receptive to life, in general, and can bring life to places where it's hard to exist.
Instead of looking at the potential represented by a hotter world, why not look at what's actually happening? It's nice that in theory a warming earth could actually be great for life (the word "can" is doing a ton of work for you there), while in practice we're watching lots of things die off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by domer2
These scenarios are predicated upon massive increases in coal usage, massive increases in oil consumption, etc. They project the world in 2100 will be everyone driving around their gas cars non-stop and burning coal to heat their homes. High carbon emission scenarios are just not, not, not going to happen.
? Recent reporting especially has highlighted that CO2 emissions at existing levels would be bad and emissions are still going up at a global level.
02-01-2019 , 06:08 PM
Necessity is the mother of invention.

No honest person can claim that we are "doing nothing" about the perceived problem of global warming.

We haven't abolished the consumption of fossil fuels and redistributed all of the shekels in the Big Oil bank accounts, but that doesn't mean nothing is being done.

Forcing the hand of industry into technology that isn't ready for primetime (solar, wind, etc) is going to do more harm than good in the short term, without making a noticeable difference in the medium to long term compared to letting this progress at a more natural rate.

I don't know anyone who is against renewable energy and more sustainable living as a concept. I know plenty of people who aren't willing to tax themselves into poverty and forego modern luxuries on the off chance that it might add a couple decades to the year 3000 doomsday clock.

Climate zealots have been crying wolf for many decades now, and all they have to show for it is some doctored footage of inconvenienced polar bears, some cherrypicked statistics, and a ton of busted predictions.
02-01-2019 , 06:29 PM
Man, if only there were some experts we could talk to about the necessity of a response to climate change! Oh wait, you don't like what they have to say.

Progress is being made despite considerable headwind from you and your team. Your president just went on the world stage and said that even token measures were too much, we're outta here.

I do love the accusation of cherry picking from a denier though. It is always projection.
02-01-2019 , 06:40 PM
Ah yes, Wookie busting out the "projection" memes and bringing Trump into it.

TTHRIC
02-01-2019 , 06:44 PM
'doctored footage of inconvenienced polar bears', that's what we're up against, folks.
02-01-2019 , 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Man, if only there were some experts we could talk to about the necessity of a response to climate change! Oh wait, you don't like what they have to say.
Sure, but it’s not what they have to say; it’s that they’re a one-trick pony entirely focused on reducing emissions. That’s just one phase of the loop.
02-01-2019 , 07:45 PM
Thread delivered.
02-01-2019 , 07:55 PM
the good news is that climate change deniers will not be the silliest subsection of humans as long as anti vaxxers continue to walk the earth
02-01-2019 , 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
I love how people are like “technology will solve this” but when the STEM bros tell us that we drastically need reduce CO2 emissions they’re like “nah, I don’t trust all that science stuff.”
People like roleplaying dummies for attention/outrage. After they repeat the devils advocating for a while, they start to believe it.

Then they turn 58 and turn on Fox News and find there's a channel just for them.
02-01-2019 , 08:02 PM
Climate change deniers are the epitome of white privilege.

They are the most selfish, self absorbed dregs who refuse to have even the faintest relationship with reality, brainwashed by the corporate shills they devour wholesale because they are told any other media is "fake news."

I'm not even going to waste my breath dunking on this thread.
02-01-2019 , 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inso0
We haven't abolished the consumption of fossil fuels and redistributed all of the shekels in the Big Oil bank accounts, but that doesn't mean nothing is being done.
⠀▲
▲ ▲

Triforce aligned.
BOIDS rolled dubs.
Just need trips to unlock P7.
02-01-2019 , 09:24 PM
Climate change skeptic's favorite chart has some problems...


https://www.theguardian.com/environm...rious-problems
02-01-2019 , 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower Man
⠀▲
▲ ▲

Triforce aligned.
BOIDS rolled dubs.
Just need trips to unlock P7.
I noticed that too. Gave away the game a but early though. Next thing you know he'll be in here telling us a certain group of people actually control the weather.
02-01-2019 , 10:41 PM
plural of shekel is shkalim.
02-01-2019 , 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOIDS
the good news is that climate change deniers will not be the silliest subsection of humans as long as anti vaxxers continue to walk the earth
The flat earth?
02-01-2019 , 11:52 PM
This is how shocked I was to see Ins0 posting anti-Semitic 4chan memes:

02-02-2019 , 12:36 AM
Oil tycoons/execs have generally been Wasps. Armond Hammer being a notable exception.

      
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