Is grunching allowed under the new rules of conduct?
This is a pointless topic to be discussed on this particular forum. You'll go back and forth endlessly, often arguing completely different points in a single exchange, and there are limitless graphs and charts and citations from both sides that cherrypick details out of a larger argument to debunk.
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Originally Posted by TJ Eckleburg12
Here are my main points, just waiting to be refuted:
1: Global temperatures aren't "supposed" to be anything.
With few exceptions, this isn't even a disagreement between the traditional sides of the global warming argument. Al Gore may think that there was some perfect temperature at some point, but that point is unsurprisingly when he was in his youth and life hadn't shat all over him yet. He's nostalgic. Ignore his silly arguments.
I went down this rabbit hole once. It ends with people thinking that by you pointing out that at one point our atmosphere was different enough that a 75 ton land animal somehow managed to breathe out of airways the size of a modern horse, that you believe dinosaurs never existed. Learn from the mistakes of others.
At best, you'll get a concession that you're right, but humans are incompatible with whatever new temperature is going to become the norm. Now you have to go down that new rabbit hole of ultimately unprovable arguments.
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Originally Posted by TJ Eckleburg12
2. I don't think higher average global temperatures necessarily cause more extreme or inclement weather.
Every time a bad hurricane or tornado or wildfire or earthquake or tsunami rolls through, global warming people say "Welp! It's getting worse and worse because of global warming!"
According to wikipedia, the deadliest natural disaster in the world (excluding pandemics and famine) was a flood in China in 1931. The deadliest natural disaster in America was a hurricane that hit Texas in the year 1900.
The red part means anything after that is going to be largely ignored. There are countless men who think they are women. There are posters on this very forum who think you can simply shove the United States in a Sweden-shaped box and suddenly all of our societal problems will be solved. What people think doesn't always mesh with reality. So you can think all day long, but you are framing it as fact which isn't going to fly.
Still, this is one of those points that you're going to have a hard time arguing, because "the models" show otherwise and people will be able to bombard you with endless charts and articles that go against your belief. You don't get to simply say those are all untrue, you have to attack the source, or explain why the methodology is bad. The first is often legit, but lazy, and the second is so far beyond the scope of this forum.
Second, modern technology has a huge impact on how deadly certain weather events can be. You can't really use the past as your metric. Too many other variables have changed.
Though, it's certainly true that we haven't seen all the fire and brimstone we were promised 20 years ago.
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Originally Posted by TJ Eckleburg12
3. I'm not prepared to stop driving and using electricity, are you? ...Hypocrite.
Here is where you get into the real argument being made by most anti-alarmists on Global Warming. The costs outweigh the benefits. There's a comic floating around with a list of all the supposed pros to GW "fixes" where the punchline is, "What if we do all of this and make the world better for nothing?" and that's probably what you'll get back on this point.
Those people will ignore the fact that most of those proposals will wreak havoc on the US economy but probably not even make a dent in the overall problem they were designed to solve.
Yes, Al Gore is a massive hypocrite. As are most of the well known GW alarmists. Pointing that out isn't really an argument that will work here because everyone on 2p2 is a model citizen and grows their own food and doesn't own a car.
The goalposts have been moving on this topic for 75 years. You know what changes can be made in your personal life to have an impact. Do whatever you feel is worth the sacrifice. The planet will be fine. There's plenty of room in the Midwest for all those people currently sitting on beachfront property if it comes to that.