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08-21-2017 , 08:49 PM
given what's happening (at risk of repost) this is absolutely worth a watch, from back in may. top 10 speech of my lifetime.

08-21-2017 , 09:21 PM
Keep in mind that the more we make fun of these alt-right chuckleheads for being virgins, the more tightly they cling to their virginity!
08-21-2017 , 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem
I care oh so deeply about this company having a sad.
08-21-2017 , 10:23 PM
'They never got told no" is a surprisingly poor winner view of the last few administrations.
08-21-2017 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
I care oh so deeply about this company having a sad.
Isn't this great news for the statue-making industry? We've just created a huge demand for statues. They can start cranking out John Brown and Harriet Tubman statues and make a ****load of money.


08-21-2017 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem
Quote:
Why those Confederate soldier statues look a lot like their Union counterparts


...

Many of the South’s Silent Sentinels turn out to be identical to the statues of Union soldiers that decorate hundreds of public spaces across the North. Identical, but for one detail: On the soldier’s belt buckle, the “U.S.” is replaced by a “C.S.” for “Confederate States.”

It turns out that a campaign in the late 19th century to memorialize the Civil War by erecting monuments was not only an attempt to honor Southern soldiers or white supremacy. It was also a remarkably successful bit of marketing sleight of hand in which New England monument companies sold the same statues to towns and citizens groups on both sides of the Civil War divide...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Isn't this great news for the statue-making industry? We've just created a huge demand for statues. They can start cranking out John Brown and Harriet Tubman statues and make a ****load of money...
It should be boom time for constructing "never again" museums too. Gerbs getting crated as far as the eye can see.

According to the WaPo article, besides being mostly a Yankee business, they where quite innovative for the time. They offered one-stop-shopping including installation. Maybe a statue making company, and construction company, need to team up and offer towns a one-stop-shopping mini-museum & statue replacement service.
08-22-2017 , 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
this is called "letting the mask slip."

there are no bolsheviks. that is a propaganda term that you learned from some alt-right deplorable personality or web site.

so ya, I guess you can learn from your mistake and refine your delivery. not that it will ever work here. but mebbe somewhere you may be the smartest person in the room.
Remember when FlyWy demanded to know how I found that article about Lee's views on slavery? And then I revealed that it was linked, not by an Alt-Right source, but by an in-thread compatriot?

How his silence now echoes.

I learned about bolshevism in academia, studying the history of political philosophy. Strict adherence to the central party line, maintained by a privileged political elite, is far from gone. That people no longer self-describe as "bolshevik" does not mean the ideology has disappeared.

A close friend of mine recently pointed out that "nazi'ism" was a quintessentially German ideal, suggesting how silly it is for Americans to claim to be "nazi's". His mistake is the other side of yours: the name itself is a reference point to an underlying ideal; placing too much stock in nomenclature alone hides the pattern beneath.
08-22-2017 , 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
With all the slave raping Jefferson's genocide has been overlooked.

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.co...emoval-policy/
"join or die" isn't genocide imo

genocide is just "die"
08-22-2017 , 10:08 AM
as for Kropotkin and later Bookchin, what of a concert of localities?
08-22-2017 , 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf
Remember when FlyWy demanded to know how I found that article about Lee's views on slavery? And then I revealed that it was linked, not by an Alt-Right source, but by an in-thread compatriot?

How his silence now echoes.

I learned about bolshevism in academia, studying the history of political philosophy. Strict adherence to the central party line, maintained by a privileged political elite, is far from gone. That people no longer self-describe as "bolshevik" does not mean the ideology has disappeared.

A close friend of mine recently pointed out that "nazi'ism" was a quintessentially German ideal, suggesting how silly it is for Americans to claim to be "nazi's". His mistake is the other side of yours: the name itself is a reference point to an underlying ideal; placing too much stock in nomenclature alone hides the pattern beneath.
No
08-22-2017 , 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf
"join or die" isn't genocide imo

genocide is just "die"
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf
as for Kropotkin and later Bookchin, what of a concert of localities?
The first quote is so bad it makes me not really want to respond to the second.

But.... I haven't read Bookchin yet, but I've listened to a couple long interviews. Municipalism seems cool and almost seems like a possible direction we're heading on things like mayors and climate change policies. Rojava and it's cantons is very interesting and seems pretty awesome as well and Bookchin's work is important there.
08-22-2017 , 10:35 AM
that a policy isn't "genocide" does not make that policy "good" or even "not terrible"
08-22-2017 , 10:40 AM


I guess they don't like being massively outnumbered?
08-22-2017 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf
that a policy isn't "genocide" does not make that policy "good" or even "not terrible"
I don't even want to talk about that. Your position here is wrong and terrible.
08-22-2017 , 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12


I guess they don't like being massively outnumbered?
how prevalent was anti-nazi Violence in boston?
08-22-2017 , 10:58 AM
alt right nazi branch showed up for a fight, one of their own went murder on it, now they realize they are either outnumbered and gonna get their ass kicked or just look even more stupid and lose their fight more, so they're backing down. probably smart on their part (for once).
08-22-2017 , 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
I don't even want to talk about that. Your position here is wrong and terrible.
Jefferson, in your link, wanted to take their land.

He didn't want to eliminate their existence as a people.


This is an important distinction.
08-22-2017 , 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
On the subject of statue debates: protesters in Seattle demand removal of Vladimir Lenin statue. idk if they thought they were gonna TARP liberals into being like "wait no not our precious monument to our beloved COMMUNISM" but in news that will shock no one, the mayor was like "yeah sounds good to me":



Shocking!
I thought that was well handled, but I'm curious to see how DSA and red rose twitter handle the centennial of the October Revolution. I recently read this fascinating and repulsive interview with China Mieville, a literary sci-fi/fantasy novel who recently wrote some sort of creepy historical fiction about the October Revolution. There is a very interesting sort of Red Lost Cause vibe here, where people sort of tacitly concede that slavery/mass exemplary killings are probably not ideal, but *really* what the revolution was about was states' rights/revolutionary overthrow of the exploitative bourgeosie, and really can't we just talk about the virtues of mass-murdering dictatorships:

Quote:
I’m increasingly pulled by the idea that globally, we’re in a moment of sclerotic decadence of capitalism, with all the associated excrescences. I feel that it may not be mere epiphenomenon to have a sense that we are particularly surrounded by a sea of bull**** and bad faith, right now. An interesting effect for me is that good faith becomes increasingly important; I set a lot of store by the ability to have an honourable debate with those I disagree with. And I don’t mean just on the left. I really welcome serious liberal and even right-wing discussions of these topics: what I can’t bear are the kind of waffly liberal nostrums about "revolutions eating their children," or "lovely idea but it could never work." Analysis by aphorism.
!!! Another characteristic point of view is to substitute a discussion of the breathtaking revolutionary/aristocratic virtues of Lenin & Trotsky/Lee & Jackson for any discussion of the merits of government by exemplary mass killings/fighting a war to preserve slavery:

Quote:
At his best, I think this was one of things that distinguished Trotsky and, in a perhaps less theoretically succulent kind of way, but with incredible speed, was quite remarkable about Lenin. Everybody commented on Lenin’s antenna for these minute shifts. This didn’t mean he was never wrong — he was wrong many times: in July, on Kornilov, arguably about aspects of October. But not just his sense of these shifts, but his willingness to completely change his line was, I think, highly unusual. You could say that, in a certain admirable way, he was totally unsentimental about his own positions.

Blanc: I really liked the vignettes in the book in which you feel almost sympathetic for the Bolsheviks who have to deal with having a leader like that in their organisation.

Miéville: It’s remarkable: while Lenin is in hiding in the Fall of 1917 his comrades are invoking his almost Biblical wrath for the utter sin of printing what he had written two weeks earlier. There’s not too many of us who, if you did that, you could be wildly misrepresenting us. But in his case, it was hugely misleading.
"Admirable"!

Anyways, good on the mayor of Seattle. An example to be followed by all.
08-22-2017 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12


I guess they don't like being massively outnumbered?
the silenced minority
08-22-2017 , 12:28 PM
Bobman,

What's the point there? Of course some lefties apologize for the atrocities and failures of Lenin. Just a scathing indictment of China Meiville!

Centrists apologize for plenty of atrocities. Look at Kissinger. Some figures, far more relevant than China Meiville, are fans of his.
08-22-2017 , 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf
how prevalent was anti-nazi Violence in boston?
Someone tried to take that nazi ladies American flag, which was not cool. But certainly the biggest story about anti nazi violence in Boston.

It’s pretty clear the overwhelming majority of these nazis are huge pussies who are much more comfortable engaging at a distance. When they drew up these protests they thought the governent and law enforcement would lay down a rose petal path.

They could protest unfettered and create fear and intimidation while recruiting and facing no repercussions. What they found is real life is not a video game.

At this point and time I think them scurrying back to their holes is the best outcome. Some will try to cause trouble but others will be presented with the opportunity to outgrow and mature past the nonsense they were fed and become normal people without having destroyed their future.

Fear and racism in this country has always centered on outnumbering the target, so it’s pretty easy game to just turn it back on them. They love 5 on 1, 50 on 4, 100 on 20 but they don’t love 1 on 1 let alone 100 on 10000.

Although I’m sure posts like mine will just force them to become more nazier and more racister.
08-22-2017 , 12:36 PM
Re: some communists praising mass murder, I'd also note a Marxist or proto Marxist wistfully admiring a violent revolutionary is hardly surprising. Communists aren't hippies or pacifists. Violent retributive war is pretty central to the theory and worldview.
08-22-2017 , 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Re: some communists praising mass murder, I'd also note a Marxist or proto Marxist wistfully admiring a violent revolutionary is hardly surprising. Communists aren't hippies or pacifists. Violent retributive war is pretty central to the theory and worldview.
The persecution of the aristocracy fits there, but not so much the persecution of the peasants.
08-22-2017 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf
Remember when FlyWy demanded to know how I found that article about Lee's views on slavery? And then I revealed that it was linked, not by an Alt-Right source, but by an in-thread compatriot?

How his silence now echoes.

I learned about bolshevism in academia, studying the history of political philosophy. Strict adherence to the central party line, maintained by a privileged political elite, is far from gone. That people no longer self-describe as "bolshevik" does not mean the ideology has disappeared.

A close friend of mine recently pointed out that "nazi'ism" was a quintessentially German ideal, suggesting how silly it is for Americans to claim to be "nazi's". His mistake is the other side of yours: the name itself is a reference point to an underlying ideal; placing too much stock in nomenclature alone hides the pattern beneath.
dude I know what you meant. I know you didnt mean literal bolsheviks. its still a bs term that has no meaning esp in this situation.

      
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