The "better terms" thing is kinda huge.

Disagree with this entirely.

The argument isn't 'don't worry, whites won't be a minority really', it's 'why is preserving a white majority important at all?'

Yeah, but a better world is possible.

but minorities are already poorer than whites.

the white supremacists are concerned with demographics not income levels.

look at Bannon, he does not even want Chinese scientists coming here because we have a "civic society".

First, it's not an -either/or-. Instead, there are always dual and complementary purposes. The first purpose is to day-to-day struggle for wages... or as you incorrectly phrased it "petitioning the capitalists for succor".

The complementary purpose is Building the new world in the shell of the Old (which is called Prefigurative Politics in academia I guess). Which, in this case means, creating Dual Power in both the industry, and in civil society in general.

A good example is how the IWW forced the US PNW lumber industry to adopt the eight hour work day. After eight hours, a Wob would ring his own bell, and the lumberjacks would call it quits for the day. The boss would fire them all, and hire a new crew. The next day a Wob would ring his own bell, and the lumberjacks would call it quits for the day. Problem solved.

Remember, a union's portfolio includes everything that affects working folk... not just wage and workplace conditions. Unemployed folk have lots of problems... surviving on the "safety net", not getting evicted, or dealing with being unhoused. Unemployed folk have children, and community they enjoy, and place, and are often at-risk of environmental and safety hazards. There's a world of problems unemployed folk can confront... and some of them have some free time on their hands to do it, too.

This has all happened in large scale not very long ago in the USA. This was huge just out of living memory in the 1930s. And this has all disappeared down the memory hole, it seems. See: Coxey's Army, Bonus Army, etc/etc. Organizing the unemployed is unquestionably a revolutionary activity.



Finally, and to bring this back on topic... organizing and taking direct action is a personally transformational. DVaut1 linked above how unionism is a form of anti-intolerance. Solidarity and hate are like opposites. For every fools who gets off terrorizing a college campus chanting "Jews will not replace us", there's what, a million, unemployed folk who are repelled by that shiz, but aren't doing anything about it right now. Don't whine... organize !!!1!

ST,

Like the normies, I'm suspicious of the new world that arises out of organization. I'm not against it though, I just think there can be too much and would be more inclined to be part of a million smaller revolutions running in parallel in sympathy with each other, but not organized.

Destiny 2 should pick up a few...

As part of my individualistic socialism tomorrow through maybe Thursday I'll be helping reroof a cabin in Idyllwild for a nature/socialist organization that I'm not a member of because I'm not a joiner. Come on along comrades!

Organization != hierarchical organization. It's a superset.
Building the New World in the Shell of the Old == non-hierarchical organizing.

Which you quite correctly characterized as "a million smaller revolutions running in parallel in sympathy with each other", aka horizontal, aka how RWA organize. We are saying the same thing. I am using the customary terminology.

That being said, a lotta the unemployed organizing during the 1930s was by our friends the Communists, and we all know how hierarchical they can be. These organizations were a huge plus for working folk. Back on topic, they were hugely successful in serving as a counterpoint and alternative -vs- the lures of the KKK and (real) Nazis.

Horizontal organizing >>>> any organizing >>>> the disorganization that is only enabling the neo-fascists

That's the exact opposite of being "individualistic". What that is called is Mutual Aid. It's a form of barn-raising. That's the basis of a gift economy.

Seriously, "joining" has nothing to do with shiz. Every sole-proprietor is a coop of one.

I don't get why these guys are considered useless, there's definitely plenty of positive stuff that they could be doing. We're kinda staring down this immense crisis (in climate change) that's going to take a ton of work to mitigate. I don't see the problem as there not being anything for them to do, I see it as our government being really bad at governing.

Nice - I love Idyllwild. We've climbed at Tahquitz and Suicide a couple of times on the way to J-tree.

Yeah. I'm just very definitely a wary cat in the sense of being difficult to herd even horizontally.

Of what 19th century political and social theory I've read, Kropotkin has been my favorite. (Not counting more literary stuff like Thoreau, Blake, Tolstoy, etc.)

I agree. Or at least we owe it to ourselves to try to find productive outlets for these guys*, even if their work can't be profited from and have no revenue streams. Calling these guys and the other failsons of America useless is glib and cynical in the extreme and really plays into the capitalist mentality that our productive capacities define us. That's *sort* of the derisive point I'm trying to make, but I can understand that gets lost. Implicit is that part and parcel of any real leftist narrative here is that with collective action and organization, we have hope and these guys could be utilized to do productive work. Perhaps if the government organized it (e.g., big public works programs) or if the the labor movement was much more strident and effective. These guys are only useless to the modern status quo, not to potential alternative structures.

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*We should be clear that most of these alt right dudebros are giant pieces of **** and go **** themselves; I'm more concerned with the rising generation of impressionable/blank slate young men and how we treat them so that they don't fall captive to aggressive right-wing identity politics movements

You are forgetting about structural unemployment, Wage System/etc. This isn't a "bug", it's a "feature", as far as the powers-that-be are concerned. Governments are simply their enforcement agencies, so no... it's never a "failure of governing". Do you believe in the Tooth Sayer Fairy too?

Things like the WPA in the 1930s were payoffs to working folk... so we would put the pitchforks back in the barns.

Probably going to be a lot of that. The future versions of daytime TV & computer games will 'waste' time far more effectively

But without some level of self-worth and feeling of being useful we are always going to have problems. It's not going to come from productive work so 'self-worth' is going to have to become divorced from what we do to earn money.

Pretty sure it's obviously that branding an increasingly large number as useless (or worse) is only going to increase the problems. The need of so many to feel important/useful so that we need to do everything to make sure that is directed in a fairly benign way, as a minimum.

On the subject of statue debates: protesters in Seattle demand removal of Vladimir Lenin statue. idk if they thought they were gonna TARP liberals into being like "wait no not our precious monument to our beloved COMMUNISM" but in news that will shock no one, the mayor was like "yeah sounds good to me":

Shocking!

Virtue signaling obv

What Are the chances we find out what caused the helicopter crash?

100% I think. Pretty sure the FAA investigates every crash and those records should be available at some point.

Privately owned on private property should be interesting to see what happens. Wonder if we'll get some rich *******s in the south putting up their own statues?

bet we already have, and bet we will get more, but not sure what the issue there would be.

Yeah, once it's out of the government's control it becomes an HOA issue more than a protest issue.

The story of this statue is fascinating. An American teacher found it in a scrapheap in (former) Czechoslovakia, and convinced the Ministry of Culture to sell it to him and mortgaged his home to get it moved from Slovakia to Seattle, because he wanted to put it up outside of a Slovak restaurant, presumably to drum up business?

Less than six months later dude dies in a car crash, and (tl;dr) no one knows wtf to do with this Lenin statue, so they stuck it next to a gelato shop where it was a weird ironic attraction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin,_Seattle