is it at all helpful that none of those regimes were actually "Communist", even by their own terms, but instead "socialists" trying to bring about communism?

where do you get this?

Luciom,

If this refers to the recent bridge collapse in Genoa I have to wonder what this has to do with the public sector. The bridge was operated as part of a toll road by a puclicly traded company. Did you not know that?

Ah. They weren't real Communists amirite? Is that it? And neither were every other Communist nation so the misery that unfolded - each & every single effin time-can't be blamed on Communism, yeah? Please. Again pure apologia from you. And they fully endorsed Communism anyway it's why it was in the USSR's National anthem

In practice every single Communist country sucked monkey balls & by that I mean in terms of human suffering & were responsible mind bogglingly high numbers in terms of mass murder. So don't gimme that pap re the ideology as by that rationale I can disregard the Nazis penchant for genocide & mass murder & focus instead on their environmental protection concerns & animal rights issues & their endorsement of an ancient good luck symbol. I'll just ignore Auschwitz Treblinka & Sobibor just as Gulags & Holodomor is ignored as well as the Cultural Revolution & the Killing Fields.

And It's a crock. Again see the forest. And leave the revisionism for the Holocaust deniers nobody sane that lot remotely seriously anyway. I don't take Communists seriously for the same reason- both philosophies caused extraordinary levels of horror & in Communism's case continues to cause it in China.
(who of course aren't "Real Communist[/i]™" either natch, more excuse waffle blah)

Again it's a crock. Hopefully you realise that in time.

From Comrade Lenin aka not a "Real Communist®" of course.

More quotes from the Bloodthirsty One here
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...9&postcount=66
But of course not the same as the philosophy not at all no siree, that was Leninism dontcha know excuse excuse rationalize apologia blah de blah...


So yeah I can indeed regard anyone with a Communist avatar as being no different than Nazis. They're simply on the other end of the spectrum but both endorse a philosophy which engaged in genocide mass murder & anti Semitism regardless of whatever rose tinted revisionist spin you wish to put on Communism.

Way to confirm how people simply don't earn from history.

This refers to what was brought about in the thread for hawaii not having enough shelters.

Regarding genoa, do you know the toll road was publicly owned and rented to the private operator? and that maintenance (which by contract had to be done by the private contractor, and which does not appear to have been lapsed) has probably not much to do with its collapse, it's rather about the bridge itself being "wrong" from the costruction science point of view, as many people (university professors included) were saying in the last 20+ years (that's why we were close to get a replacement, but you know, the public takes a lot of time to make decisions).

Anyway this topic is a big derail, i'd be glad to talk about the genoa bridge if you want to but i am not sure this is the right place.

They are not "on the other hand of the spectrum". If you read some goebbels the framework economically is very similar. Petit borgeoisie = evil .

The only significant difference between nazism and comunism is on the nationalistic/internationalistic axis. Adn the fact that nazism pragmatically didn't destroy completly private production (even though they nationalized a lot of it).

OP literally has the USSR flag as his avatar.

not sure what you're adding...

Lenin et al. saw socialism, really a particular brand of it, as a means to achieving communism.

You're arguing that that particular approach to that means is the only way to view the ends.

No. He. Does. Not.

You have a right to free speech as long as people with clubs don't come at you when you say something that they don't like.

All rights work like that. There are no "natural" rights. There are cultures, and they decide collectively which rights are worth upending.

And what i am saying is that among the very few most important rights there are property rights. They are conductive to high quality of life and more peaceful and productive societies.

You can disagree, and i see many people here seem to disagree. And i understand that your position in this forum is "communism talk is allowed because we don't think property rights are fundamental for societal well being". [please correct me if i am wrong]

FWIW my position is that no political discourse should take place that allows for infringement of basic human rights. No political position that asks for asevere restriction to fundamental rights should be dignified (if it was my forum that is). That includes nazism and communism, deranged people asking to remove women voting rights, people advocating for sharia law etc etc.

My position is different than yours but i respect freedom and property rights. This is not my place and you have all the rights (from my PoV) to censor whatever content you want to censor.

I asked a question and i think i got my answer, so i say thanks to all that helped me getting an answer.

This is such utter BS. If anything it's the other way around (NOTE: NOT DEFENDING NAZISM IN ANY WAY FOR THE ****ING TROLLS WHO CAN'T READ). Nazis were more or less defeated in war after 10 years in power. Communism has had over half a century to grow and develop in every corner of the world from Russia, to Cuba, to China.

Results:



Have you skipped over Einbert's posts about the USSR or just forgot about them?

A particular of the URSS flag maybe is more correct?

Communism still existing in north korea. But "that's not communism" too i guess even if all capital is in the hand of the state. Because reasons.

It's an important distinction, given that the particular is not unique to the USSR flag, yet you insist that it is evidence that the USSR's record is thereby endorsed.

afaiu in communism there is no state

So given that the "fascio littorio" [fasces] is not unique of fascism, it would be totally ok to have a far right user with a fascio littorio as avatar because that wouldn't be "endorsing fascism values" as the fascio littorio has been used by someone else too?

You would ask for permaban in that case (and you would be right!).

That's definitely not what marx said. You are talking about social anarchism.

Clean air and water are fundamental for societal well being. Perhaps we should disallow all talk in favor of fossil fuels.

If communist had the intention to admit that USSR was a grotesque failure with very little comparison in the history of human society failures, they would have burned the USSR's symbology completly.

It's really really hard to follow the logic of "OP isn't endorsing USSR" given what i read in the past in this forum about the confederate flag and colours.

does that symbol represent advocacy of ethnic cleansing and racial superiority?


I have never heard of it, looked it up, and didn't recognize it.

oh, lol:



there are two at the bottom

Does the use of fossil fuels completly destroy the possibility of having clean water and air? no it does not.

So your example is a good example of why some property rights, sometimes, "for better reasons", can be curbed.

It's not at all a good example of why communist conversation can take place though, given that the core belief of communism is TOTAL AND PERMANENT eradication of private property. Total. Permanent. Not some limitation in some cases as justified by this or that greater purpose. Total. Forever.

So you have either to admit that the communist belief system is infringing on a basic right, or admit that you don't consider that having at least SOME property rights is a basic human right. You decide

Well it does in italy, as fascism passed the "racial laws" which banned jews from public work and so on. Yes you have the fascio littorio also on abrahma lincoln statue.

Oh among the rights that communism infringes, there is inheritance.

Of course you could just handwave that away as an irrelevant part of life, but for many people with children their life as far less meaning if they know they can't leave any property to their children.

But who cares what is really important for other people right?

is the confederate battle flag a bannable avatar?

regardless, that symbol uniquely represents a culture grounded in exclusively racial slavery

the hammer-and-sickle does not represent the USSR and was not unique to the USSR