I'm writing about the so called communist avatar vs. the nazi avatar of posters here. The images have significantly different weights. False equivalency.

so you would be ok with people saying that nazi ideas where very good in some cases but it was just a problem of implementation? like some1 saying that jews should have been deported to "jewloving countries" instead of being killed, that would be totally ok with you?

I don't see the disconnect between communist ideas and their implementation that you seem to imply here. They have been tried tens of times, and some results have happened the same way every time, and they were terrible.

Anyway the ideas itself in communism are atrocious. Eliminating private property is tantamount to eliminating sexual freedom, or most other freedoms in general.

So i guess the point here is that in this forum private property is not considered a basic human right? so it can be argued against it without censorship, while right of minorities are basic rights and it is not allowed to argue against them?

That could answer my original question.

Ok, such a dumb miles off observation shows no reasonable conversation is possible.

Its clear you are a private property fundamentalist, so pointing out the objective reality that private property is a purely social construct is not going to get us very far.

I am asking why for you guys they have different weights. Communism killed more people, in more countries, that nazism did. Communism destroyed the quality of life of far more people worldwide than nazism did.

Countries exiting from communism still have long-lasting economic scars that take away from them the chance to develop properly, compared to countries exiting from far-right dictatorships, than in every single case managed to get back on track economically far quicker than ex-communist countries.

This permanence of the deleterious economical effects of far left vs far right extremism is very significant when you try to judge what is worse. Communism is far worse long term even when you manage to escape from it.

So exactly why should images glorifying communism have "lesser weight" than images gloryfing nazism, when there is a long series of objective elements that allow me to say that communism has been (far) more damaging to humanity than nazism?

Yes private property is a purely social construct i agree.

As is every single other human right.

The idea between the hypotethical "nazi philosopher who disagreed with implementation" is bad? that's exactly what communist have been doing for decades without you guys clinching.

That was the core of my question. You have a philosophy that destroyed every single country it has been tried to "improve". That killed more people than every other political belief system in the history of the world. That managed to reduce growth rates for the economy dramatically in a period when every1 else was growing without comparison to any other moment in human history.

And you don't want to send it to the dustbin of history togheter with other human political failures like nazism and so on.

Why, i asked. Answer was "it is less bad". I am trying to understand how people can say that it was so far less bad than nazism to justify censorship of nazism (WHICH I AGREE WITH) and not of communism.

nazi avatar: I hate and want to kill certain people.

communist avatar: (worst case) I believe in an economic system that has proved unsuccessful and disastrous

Ok, you probably dont realise it, but this is conceding that taking away the "right" to private property is not the same as taking away the right to sexual freedom in anyway.

How so? Both engaged in genocide, anti Semitism & suppression. Both caused untold suffering. How does the Communist image have significantly different weight, precisely? Swastika was originally a positive symbol thousands of years old. It became an image of hate & misery when a bunch of populist occultist weirdos adopted it, engaging in anti Semistism conducting genocide & plunging the world into war.

Communist image was a symbol of the Workers Utopia. Which turned to genocide & anti Semitism and repression & gulags & more genocide for good measure, if you wish to include the Cambodians & Chinese, in which case we can add the insanity of the Cultural Revolution & the Khmer Rouge ideology, quite apart from the genocide.

So again how does the image have different connotations considering the untold suffering caused by both ideologies?

Luciom, why dont you educate us all on Hegelian dialectic.

It depends how important you think property rights are. Which, i gather, is not very much, and as i said this answer my original question if this view is shared by the moderation.

Well, no. That could be true if you use Marx face as an avatar.

If you use che guevara you agree with what it did , and with that the cuban regime did. You are gloryfing it.

If you use the URSS flag, that's the same.

So you made a very good point about letting people use Marx avatar, it changed my mind on that. But your logic doesn't apply to the URSS flag , do you agree?

welll as i said now they convinced me that marx image could actually survive communism censorship (as maybe gramsci and other "enlightened" comunists could). Which is like saying we don't censorship nietzche even if it was very relevant for some nazis.

But the URSS flag "not having a big weight" is still utterly incomprehensible.

Somebody‘s still pissed off that the communists killed Mussolini.

Lets actually summarise briefly what "communism" is.

Some guy, very smart, adopts the ideas of another very smart guy to try and predict what the next social system will be.

We see that Feudalism turned into Capitalism, so what social system comes after capitalism?

So the idea stolen by Marx from Hegel is one of a transcendent reason/rational order making itself more manifest in human society over time, that each social system has internal conflicts and contradictions that ultimately resolve themselves into a harmony, or a higher form of social order, until ultimately you have the perfect rational society that has no contradictions = communism.

The resolution of conflict in a higher unity. This is the dialectic.

So Marx, looked at capitalism and tried to draw out its internal contradictions. All told he did an excellent job of this and this is acknowledged by plenty of capitalist thinkers.

However where his work starts to become problematic is when he starts trying to predict the resolution of those conflicts, to prescribe the higher unity that will emerge from them.

There is another bigger problem though. That of human agency. In its pure form, you can just sit back relax, chill and eventually Capitalism will just turn into communism because of the historical process.

However people read Marx and were "sod waiting lets make this happen NOW!"

The problems with Marx trying to predict the next social order in advance, the concrete theoretical need for material conditions to be X for this to happen, e.g very mature late capitalism (they were not X in russia or china or cambodia, capatalism had barely got going in these countries) is what led to the murder death kill.

Modern communists are more than aware of this though, hyper aware, so I personally have no problem with their iconography.

I am actually pissed off that they had a role to write my constitution, and a big role in warping beyond recourse the political process in italy after WW2, leading to the current economic stagnation in italy that has been going on for more than 2 decades (ZERO real per capita gdp growth since 1996-1998 depending on sources).

So ye i have personally touched the effects that widespread communist ideas generate in a society even if they are not in power, and i am trying to understand why people who are far better off thanks to having avoided such a nightmare risk their wellbeing allowing such disastrous ideas to be spread

Yeah? You absolutely positively no-room-for-slightest-doubt sure about that?

Vladimir Iylich Ulyanov Lenin, Hero of the Glorious Worker's Revolution (if you're a revisionist that is. Fanatical bloodthirsty nutjob if you're an everyday average normal person & I'm starting to see where the term Mad Vlad comes from btw)

So again you sure about that & again how do both images have less weight?

Or was his talk about extermination and organized terror & bourgeois drowning in their own blood taking outa context? Not really meant the way the nazis meant it or Hitler when he said in 1920 that he wished to see Jews "removed"?
(Adolf Hitler "Why We Are Anti Semites" speech Hofbräuhaus 1920)

So again how do the images have less weight when both their leaders preached removal, terror & extermination?

Blaming zero GDP growth in Italy since 96 (need to see cite) on communism is a spectacular hot take.

Cars aren't made to kill people, but to get them from a-b.
Cars aren't sentinent life forms who have ideologies.
Cars therefore don't preach extermination & hate like people do & did under both Nazism & Communism.

So even as attempted sarcasm your comparison's just plain inapt.

https://tradingeconomics.com/italy/gdp-per-capita

This is one source

Right so then modern Communists are brushing off the mass murder of millions & millions of innocent people as...a bad call? Like Burke from Aliens said when Ripley called his ass on sending off all those colonists off to die? But that's okay cuz they're like not just merely aware of this but totally "hyper aware" of it? Well then. That makes it all okay I guess. Maybe I was wrong about this whole image equating to genocide & misery thing...

I guess if it ever comes around again on such a scale they'll get it right this time due to their being hyper aware of previous bad calls...right? And speaking of awareness hyper or otherwise are modern Communists aware of modern China & its harvesting of organs, persecution & torture of Falun Gong meditation practitioners forces evictions of rural migrant workers abysmal human rights record & that past but relatively recent spot of bother in Tiananmen square? (where nothing happened btw just a few "troublemakers" that needed sorting out) And Cambodia? And how every country which tried communism had an appalling human rights record, again including China today, who are probably torturing some dissident or harmless mediation practitioner right now as I post this to go with their 3000 a year executions & literally 99.9 conviction rate?

Or do the Chinese not count are we in a more narrow spectrum here? Like equating Communism to The Motorcycle Diaries & how cool Che looks on that tee-shirt? Since all the horror & terror was just a bad call but hyper aware of it mind?

In other news people never cease to bemuse me...

'We Do Not Have Enough Shelters for Everyone,' Say Hawaii Officials as Hurricane Lane Draws Near

Capitalism can suck it.

Sorry about that. Ms. Nazi?

I could be wrong because i don't live in the usa, but aren't hawaii taxes among the highest in your country?

So isn't the state of hawaii as a public entity resourceful more than enough to build shelters, if its elected politicians decide to do so?

So how exactly is this a problem that can be in any way linked to the methods of production and ownership of productive capital, if it isn't lack of resources the reason why hawaii doesn't have enough shelters?

Because they almost never get hit by hurricanes.

Better question is why Florida is still not stormproofing the state and building wooden houses literally in the ocean.

LOL, you made a post asking why nazi threads are banned. That's enough in this day and age to make you pro-nazi.

Communism the philosophy can be separated from the Communists regimes that murdered millions of people. It is not part of the Communist philosophy to be a brutal dictatorship, it's a bug. Brutality is a feature of Nazism.

Modern day Nazis are *******s espousing a system only *******s and libertarians can get behind.

Modern day communists want to form stronger unions.