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BS, yachts, freedom and the market BS, yachts, freedom and the market

06-05-2008 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Cohen used the classic negative liberty definition of freedom as "lack of interference from others", as he stated in the quote.
No he doesn't, because he doesn't even demonstrate an understanding of the concept. Property rights extend from self ownership or the "lack of interference from others". Once you recognize that the boat is mine because I cut down the trees, carved out the trunks, sealed, built a sail and made sure it was sea worthy his argument falls apart. You cannot attack the libertarian position this way because they view the boat as being a part of the person who built it. It is a store of his labor and that is the reason you are interfering with my freedom when you take it, but I am no interfering with yours by not allowing you to. But because he ignores the way libertarian theory builds property rights from self ownership he misses the mark by a mile.
06-05-2008 , 11:39 AM
Did anyone notice that under the "freedom" laid out in the OP, yachts wouldn't even exist in the first place?
06-05-2008 , 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Salazar
This is why govt should rent land to highest bidder and defend all other property.
As soon as government obtains legitimate ownership of some property, I'm all for it renting it out.
06-05-2008 , 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerbobo
Yes.

I would also mention that you are free to purchase or rent a yacht, should you wish.

OP's example is ridiculous, why not change "yacht" to "vagina"..... and claim you are not free unless you can bang any woman you want.
been there, done that
06-05-2008 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
Did anyone notice that under the "freedom" laid out in the OP, yachts wouldn't even exist in the first place?
It also seems telling that mooro wants to define the word freedom as a thing.
06-05-2008 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by taint_bad
Isn't this kind of what gov't does do? Aren't property taxes just another name for rent? I mean if you don't pay your rent/property taxes, you will probably lose the land right?

Maybe I'm way off base here as I tend to be sometimes and generally have more questions than answers, but it doesn't seem to me that anyone actually "owns" their land, the gov't does and people are charged a yearly rent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
Who owns the land? George Bush? To preempt you if your answer is going to be "the people" does that mean that each American own 1/300,000,000th of your house? By what right does "the government" claim ownership other than we have big guns so do what we say?
I think you misunderstood his post. He's merely OBSERVING that, because nonpayment of property taxes can result in land forfeiture, IN EFFECT government has somehow usurped partial claim to the land. It's an area of government intrusion/ownership that many people don't realize.

Edit: Carry on in defining freedom.
06-05-2008 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
It also seems telling that mooro wants to define the word freedom as a negative thing.
FMP

too late to edit
06-05-2008 , 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbreuTime
I think you misunderstood his post. He's merely OBSERVING that, because nonpayment of property taxes can result in land forfeiture, IN EFFECT government has somehow usurped partial claim to the land. It's an area of government intrusion/ownership that many people don't realize.
But using force to take possession of something from someone else is only tangentially related to the question of legitimate ownership. Unless you want to say that IN EFFECT muggers have somehow usurped partial claim to your wallet.

      
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