What Grizy said. EU wouldn't even talk until Art 50 invoked.

People were pissed off about the delay when that hadn't happened.

They can't check for rogue MEPs though, can they.

Ok, tell me who to vote for that will most annoy and disrupt the EU please? Oh, and as many remainers as possible, as a bonus. That's all I'm interested in now

The argument for delaying A50 is so the UK could get a clue before starting negotiations. Obviously the UK would have been in a stronger position if it got its house in order first.

If you stipulate that it could and / or would not get a plan then obviously the only sensible position is to never invoke A50. Voluntarily invoking the crisis point as fast as possible is idiotic. Even if the argument is that the government's hands were tied and they had to jump off a cliff, there's still no reason to pretend it was anything other than dumb.

She definitely triggered it without a plan, or a competent strategy for negotiations. She just went head first in listening to absolutely nobody else.
IMO that was pretty clear at the time as well. In comparison the EU had a highly motivated and competent team headed by the intelligent Barnier, it is no wonder she got taken to the cleaners.

If there is one single thing which significantly weakened our negotiating position though I would pick her acceptance of the EU's sequencing. Staggeringly stupid.

Yep. That was moronic

More nonsense

What?

It doesn't make someone a liar and a fraud if they're preventing the worst of all possible Brexit options, even if it does happen to be the one you favour.

Because you end up putting yourself in a position where you lose all control without even knowing where you want to go and end up with the PMs if Ireland and other EU countries deciding the fate of your own whilst you simultaneously legitimise the dim-witted LOTO by having to try and act I coalition with him.
The sort of people that are pissed off are the sort of people that voted leave and still think it is a good idea. They'll never be happy.

There is a reason the EU wouldn't talk - because once it was triggered, they held even more power.

It isn't a widely held belief but I think a skilful politician had a chance of engineering exit via treaty. We don't seem to have any of those, so you end up with what we have now.

No, I certainly don't but if it means whichever government we have has to invest in the parts of the UK that the 90s/00s growth left behind so the likes of dibitter can feel a little less unloved, that'll be a very good thing.

Fortunately we'll be fine in Scotland if remain wins out.

Diebitter and his ilk will die bitter. There is no pleasing them.

That's true, and I'm more interested in subduing the gammon thirst for revenge than I am pleasing those people, as opposed to many of the younger generation in parts of the country left behind by economic progress who do lead particularly bleak lives, and I hope things can be done to make them feel they have decent prospects.

Indeed we have to address the inequality across the UK which is only going to get worse without drastic action. It's a key part of healing the wounds. The housing catastrophe also has to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

This is nothing to do with people being unloved - that bit was worth you getting out your coloured crayons for.

On the surface of it that's true. Also for London.

But people vote and they vote for things that can hurt us bad like brexit. Even in scotland 38% voted leave - it's a massive block of potentially exploitable voters even if you had independence.

If my coloured crayons deter you from posting more of your terrible music that people grew out of when they were teenagers, they've served a purpose.

I bet the Brexiters ITT are furious about those unelected officials. I can't wait to read their posts that must be coming any minute now.

Best I can do for you on the crayon front

Can't be done if Brexit happens. Brexit will destroy the public finances and the public services, and is designed to do so. Liam Fox has stated out loud that, after Brexit (and the economic crash it will enforce) the NHS and even the schools will be sold to American corporations to run for profit. The British far right have always sought this outcome.

It is not true that Remain v Leave is an Elite v People matter. Most of England's big cities, and Scotland and Northern Ireland, voted heavily Remain. C2DE under-25s, the working-class young, voted heavily Remain, as did the young generally (and so did the generation old enough to remember the Second World War, because they know the price of not getting on with neighbours and the need of Britain to be part of Europe, the cause for which Britain fought the Napoleonic Wars and both World Wars, against dictators who would have shut us out).

Psephologically, the Leave vote was won by better-off pensioners (baby-boomers not old enough to remember the war) in the southern counties, not at all by the disadvantaged young in the north. It is a Corbynista / Faragiste lie to pretend otherwise.

Even the brexiters here can see how the EU has benifited our country, otoh if it was a independence vote, then we're in for some ****.

Nothing like a bit off civil unrest in your home country when the English don't get their way, ahh well its almost as if it was brought on by yourselfs by allowing the Torys to run riot the last 3/40 years with no responsibilitys or even respect for the country known as the United Kingdom.

I'm sure it won't be too bad though, until they take London.

Betty Boothroyd at the People's Vote rally today.

So, are we over with Brexit now, will never happen? Not even a new referendum?

Referendum is becoming more likely with the passing of time. Even some Tories are now publicly backing the idea, but there's a long way to go before they can even agree on the choices.

It may have to be a referendum, for psychological reasons. Would unite the UK and relieve the EU. The remainers vote as last time, and the brexiters can vote for remain, showing Farage and Boris they couldn't fool them forever.

For the record, the thing I for some reason remember best from the Brexit campaign was when Farage told who to do business with: "maybe even the Commonwealth". Then I knew he was as far off you possibly can be. The world is real, not a dream.

If there's one thing politics has taught me over the past few years or so is that the opposite is the case when it comes to referendums.