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Old 03-19-2019, 05:55 AM   #15376
Hoopie1
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Originally Posted by diebitter View Post
May has a clear path to get her deal through now tho. Run down the clock behind the excuse Bercow wants the impossible, MPs start bricking it about a no deal, do an amendment to ignore Bercow (or does he get a veto on such things?), then get to vote on her deal again as is. If it doesn't pass again, then no deal it is.
The Speaker is subject to the instructions of the House. If there is a majority for MV3, then they can have one. Maybot does not just get to ram it down people's throats, however.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:18 AM   #15377
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Re: Brexit Referendum

LOL BREXIT.

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Old 03-19-2019, 08:02 AM   #15378
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Re: Brexit Referendum

I am absolutely shocked at the way the Government are using the BBC and the newspapers to whip up hate against Bercow and put false spin on what he did. The front pages are truly hilarious - they seem to rest on the fanciful idea that Mayís Brexit deal was sailing through before Bercow got involved. After all, it had only suffered the biggest and fourth biggest defeats in parliamentary history. Utterly bizarre.

They are trying to peddle the nonsense that he is "stopping brexit". He is doing nothing of the sort. The Brexit horse has bolted, nobody can stop it now. Anybody who tries will be voted out at the next election and a Brexit party will sweep many seats up. The accusation he is "stopping brexit" is dreamed up by the government to try and get Theresa May's deal rammed home. That would mean a foreign entity dividing up the United Kingdom and dictating taxes and laws to us which we would have no choice but to take, until they decided to let us leave . That is not brexit and it is not the future of a prosperous and free United Kingdom. Stopping a third vote was the correct thing to do. It has lost twice by historic margins.

I am ashamed of the BBC to see it pushing the agenda that Bercow has "stopped brexit" in order to whip up feeling against him. Utter crap, and it must have been ordered from the top. He has done those of us who want to leave properly (like me) all a favour, as well everyone else.

There was no impartial journalism on the BBC this morning. It was tantamount to a paparazzi attack, and very clearly fully loaded - no impartiality at all, infact hounding him, getting in his way and stating he had stopped Brexit and how would he respond to the population for getting in the way.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:39 AM   #15379
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Re: Brexit Referendum

Yep.

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Old 03-19-2019, 08:47 AM   #15380
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Re: Brexit Referendum

by the way did i ****ing call this or what?

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Bercow is supposedly neutral but he hates may for bulldozing/bypassing parliament at every opportunity and wants to inflict as much humiliation on her as he can. If you watched his responses to the votes he was almost giddy about the amendments he was going to allow to go forward in the coming days. It's not quite partisan its personal.
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:33 AM   #15381
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Re: Brexit Referendum

Oh my...

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Old 03-19-2019, 09:43 AM   #15382
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Re: Brexit Referendum

Harassment of the Speaker of the House in the street because he made a ruling the PM and and therefore the BBC's political editor didnít like?

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Old 03-19-2019, 12:34 PM   #15383
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Originally Posted by Hoopie1 View Post
LOL BREXIT.

The betting markets go crazy the closer you get to crunch time. On election day Trump shot up to a 15/1 shot on Betfair and Brexit was about a 9/1 shot.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:33 PM   #15384
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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The only problem with this is that it wasn't made clear before the referendum that it was only advisory. Cameron said the result would be honoured.

I voted Remain and want a 2nd referendum with the option to remain and see this was the only way we can now stay in the EU.
I'm sorry to say that's on Leavers for not doing their research into referendums and for not reading politicians better.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:37 PM   #15385
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Yeah I really don't see remain happening. The British aristocracy still have the charge of the light brigade ethos we'll do this damn foolish thing by jove even though its a stupid and pointless death. Plus there are too many powerful people (Mr Banks et al) who are getting rich off the collapse of Britain and will get richer off the rebuild. Especially if they get their way in regards to a low regulation low tax no welfare state no nhs ecomony.
It is and always has been a power struggle between the forces you cite and the mass of politicians and civil servants who want to remain.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:03 PM   #15386
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Listening to Dominic Grieve on newsnight last night it was clear that the house could vote to suspend the rule that Bercow is using. Providing they can win the vote of course.
That's correct. Parliament is sovereign and the House can do anything (the whole point is that the government represents the royal power and the House, just as in the 1640s, is there to put a check on that), so they could vote to suspend the rule, but this would imply that the Prime Minister had a majority, and at present she doesn't seem to have one.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:42 PM   #15387
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Originally Posted by 57 On Red View Post
That's correct. Parliament is sovereign and the House can do anything (the whole point is that the government represents the royal power and the House, just as in the 1640s, is there to put a check on that), so they could vote to suspend the rule, but this would imply that the Prime Minister had a majority, and at present she doesn't seem to have one.
I seriously doubt it's going to arise* but if May has a majority for her bill then that majority might well also vote to disapply the standard rule to the withdrawal bill. It might also be difficult for some other MPs to be seen to be obstructing brexit so they might also allow a vote even if they intend to oppose the bill.

*not least because if May really wants to bring it back and has any chance of it passing (she's flipped the dup etc) then a change that satisfies bercow is far more likely
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:44 PM   #15388
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Re: Brexit Referendum

It's kind of pointless for Bercow to bother with this. If they had a majority to pass it, it would pass. And people blaming him are just being silly.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:52 PM   #15389
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Originally Posted by jalfrezi View Post
I'm sorry to say that's on Leavers for not doing their research into referendums and for not reading politicians better.
One thing many leavers always strongly suspected was that brexit would be frustrated even if they won.

The funny thing is that the leavers found a determined brexit champion in May who just wont go away, and so far they have managed to be the ones frustrating her.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:57 PM   #15390
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
It's kind of pointless for Bercow to bother with this. If they had a majority to pass it, it would pass. And people blaming him are just being silly.
I agree the criticism of Bercow is way out of line. As is the ludicrous idea that he has some biased plan to strike at his enemies or brexit in general. That doesn't mean he didn't really enjoy annoying Leadsom

If anything he has accidentally helped May's plan A of getting this to the last week - it's not like she wanted a vote this week and it gave her the excuse not to hold it (I have no doubt that wasn't a consideration but if it had been some biased plan then he wouldn't have ruled the way he did)
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:03 PM   #15391
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Old 03-19-2019, 05:04 PM   #15392
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Re: Brexit Referendum

Who wouldn't enjoy annoying Leadsom?
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:31 PM   #15393
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Originally Posted by SiMor29 View Post
Who wouldn't enjoy annoying Leadsom?
The picture on her face yesterday when Bercow made his announcement was quite something
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:38 PM   #15394
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Re: Brexit Referendum

Bercow - best Tory politician since Churchill (who wasn't always a Tory)?
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:54 PM   #15395
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1 View Post
There is no such guarantee.

If EU does not grant an extension, and there are no further votes in Parliament we leave on March 29th with no deal.

No deal on 29th is currently the trajectory.

The no deal vote in parliament did nothing to change that, all it did was stop no deal from becoming the fixed position.

Yes this is very highly likely to change, but given how much dynamic and fluid the situation has been, where we end up is far from guaranteed.
I know the no deal vote wasn't legally binding. But it was as good as legally binding.

Arguing about the current trajectory is like driving west towards Middlesbrough and being concerned about driving into the sea. We can stop the car on our own unilaterally and we can functionally turn the car on our own too.

Any attempt to let no deal happen from the PM is itself a betrayal of democracy and a constitutional crisis.
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Old 03-20-2019, 12:02 AM   #15396
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Let's not forget his advice was that we should sue the EU. What for, where and why no one knows, including Trump himself.

The most generous thing we know is, according to advisers, he advised asking for more so that you can negotiate down to what you want.

Truly the art of the ****ing deal.

This is the guy who just shut down the US government to get his own way on the wall, got completely out maneuvered and dealt for what was offered before the shutdown whilst he was demanding less than was offered a year earlier. Then declared a national emergency giving the next president the power to unilaterally correct course on climate change and gun violence, which is why his own party has been fighting him.

He is truly the worst negotiator in politics. Even worse than May.
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:12 AM   #15397
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Originally Posted by [Phill] View Post

Any attempt to let no deal happen from the PM is itself a betrayal of democracy...
lol

You do remember it was a win of 312-308 on a non-binding vote, right?

Last edited by diebitter; 03-20-2019 at 02:41 AM.
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Old 03-20-2019, 04:05 AM   #15398
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Re: Brexit Referendum

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Originally Posted by [Phill] View Post
I know the no deal vote wasn't legally binding. But it was as good as legally binding.

Arguing about the current trajectory is like driving west towards Middlesbrough and being concerned about driving into the sea. We can stop the car on our own unilaterally and we can functionally turn the car on our own too.

Any attempt to let no deal happen from the PM is itself a betrayal of democracy and a constitutional crisis.
However likely no deal is its magnitudes more likely than any unilateral action.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:14 AM   #15399
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Re: Brexit Referendum

Can I just ask you remainers, do you think a non binding vote should be honoured?
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:15 AM   #15400
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Re: Brexit Referendum

In general, not necessarily.
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