Indeed. It's tricky because I so much want to remain but if I try to imagine wanting to leave then May's deal looks pretty damn good.

Except for one area where I think the brexiters are right to be fearful. They fear that during the transition, they will be betrayed by remainers who will negotiate a brino (or even, as I hope, a 'lets call the whole thing off'). Hard line brexiters want to diverge fast because they fear the longer we remain close the more chance we will never diverge. For that reason WTO now makes a lot of sense

There's some solid potential reasons why WTO might be the best solution, even in the short term...

Lol and somehow not being part of the EU saves you from that?

WTO-deal is just bad but try polishing that turd somehow.

We haven't even begun negotiations over the meat of the whole deal yet, which will determine the UK's relationship with the EU, so there are more reasons for everyone to be fearful.

Recessions come and go - you're being very silly again and also missing the point that if the EU went into recession it would have a large impact on the UK economy.

Not totally surprised you don't get this, though.

2. is contingent on Corbyn getting elected, which doesn't exactly look likely at the moment.

Also, lol bitter.

Brexiters - let's assume there's a one year extension, May resigns and is rapidly replaced by a Brexiter of your choice e.g Mogg or Boris or whatever. What is the path to a better Brexit?

If one of those loonies gets in and actually wins a majority via general election it's time to seriously consider leaving the country imo. There's legit no saving a country that looks at Boris and sees a remotely competent human being.

If Boris becomes PM, 100% chance he tries to gaslight Brexiters into believing the May deal is a FULL Brexit where UK gets to keep the cake and eat it too.

This:

I think May has chronically undersold her deal. We pretty much get everything we want, for as long as we want it. The EU will be mightily pissed if we are still sitting on this deal in 10 years time, as I would bet countries like Norway will be asking them for the same deal.

And this. I just don't believe most Brexiteers gave trade deals a second thought at the ballot box. It was all about not paying into the EU, and stopping FoM. This was less true of the "making our own laws" argument, but I've yet to hear any sound argument about which EU laws are inherently bad for us as a country.

Either way, I think most Brexit voters would grudging accept this as a fair compromise in return for no annual payments or FoM, considering the closeness of the referendum.

Its kinds beautiful that the line is now "I want to have elected representatives force a deal negotiated and written by unelected bureaucrats upon me even if it is bad for me and my country, provided they are mostly British".

Two years and now not only has project fear been revealed as true its now been dressed up as the entire point all along. The stuff about Britain can thrive outside of Europe was always a myth, both sides now agree on this.

Everyone agrees Britain is a **** country full of ****s and ran by ****s and we have peaked. Where we disagree is that remainers want to make the best of reality and leavers want to larp dress up because pretending to be an important country and it is everyone else's fault we are **** is almost as good as being actually being an important country.

I agree with your general point, but 300,000 EU nationals vote with their feet against this every year.

But if they accept the Irish Sea regulatory border - which already ****ing exists and has done for decades - there is no mechanism to stop leaving the customs union after the transition.

Everyone gets what they want in this outcome. Except the Irish Taliban DUP, but they are literal terrorists who can **** off. Ireland will be united within a generation regardless of what happens so let's just get the best for Britain. Its not even clear which choice brings about inevitable the fastest.

I agree that brexiteers do not want to reflect the will of the people, which is why the minority are forcing the majority out of the eu and stripping us of numerous rights. But the May deal is a good road map for them to get everything they want, because no one will accept no deal.

Lots and lots of people will be rioting in the street over a no deal because of the inevitable depression and unemployment. Brexit had already killed one MP, a no deal will increase this quickly.

I am not arguing people don't have it worse in other countries. Especially when that country is Poland.

We still have leftover wealth from centuries of exploitation.

This sums up the economic ignorance of leavers quite well.

We're at crosswires - I was responding to this.

Whether you think "better trade deals" was or wasn't a motivating factor for leave voters, prominent leave campaigners said we'd easily be able to roll over existing EU trade deals ("same") and negotiate better ones ("better"). That's a factual statement and I don't know how anyone could dispute it. Liam Fox said the former and JRM said the latter and if you search I believe you'll find basically almost every prominent leave campaigner offered the lure of better trade deals.

Brexit: Nigel Farage's fury as scientists say Remainers are brighter than Leavers
Farage accusing anyone of being divisive and arrogant is just lol.

"Leavers tended to be worse with numbers, more impulsive and prone to accepting the unsupported claims of authoritarian figures" - story checks out.

Just in case anyone doesn't know how to boil an egg ...



One trick I learnt to get an egg perfect for your own tastes (soft, semi-soft or hard - oo-er) was to occasionally take to egg out on a spoon and depending how fast to egg dries says how well it's cooked - dries immediately = hard boiled, ~5 secs = semi-soft, ~10secs = soft.

Let me guess. We should give it all back, right?

Lol at him claiming scientists doing a study are arrogant and divisive and then making an arrogant and divisive claim about remainers.

Btw talking about believing whatever feels good even if it is wrong, and a good demonstration of why leave supports only exists because of stupidity believing terrible reporting this just showed up on my news feed:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-47523168

Britain undeniably owes Africa and Asia trillions of pounds.

We should start with everything stolen over the years that sits in museum vaults and displays. The British museum is a monument to our criminal empire.

Let's put this to the bitter test.

Bitter, what's 1 - 0.9 recurring?


Bitter?


Bitter???



Strange, he seems to have left the building just as he had a chance to show his maths college lecturer skills.

I believe according to conventional mathematics wisdom that you were taught and didn't infer from first principles yourself, it's considered 0. I was taught it was something different during elementary maths and similarly didn't infer myself, but I've since found the conventional wisdom is that it is 0, so I agree it is that.

Shame on me for having a maths teacher who got it wrong, and never encountering a situation to be corrected, right?

Presenting yourself as clever because you can state proofs derived from those with greater minds isn't the greatest test of intelligence, but I expect the stupid not to realise this, and would expect the stupid to keep crowing about it.

You remind me of of some sad sack who gets one question right on University Challenge when the team didn't, and can't stop telling people about it for weeks afterwards, even though no one is interested.

(If anyone is wondering, jelfrezi is talking about a maths discussion from about 10 years ago on this site - one in which I acknowledged I had been mistaught, but something I'd never had reason or cause to revisit, ever. You decide who is the sad sack here to keep bringing it up).

Sad little man. To bring things up from 10 years ago to just be a dick, lol.

haha I found the thread and have been quite entertained by it.

Ignore my rude comments about jelfrezi about being a massive saddo for digging out some issue from a thread from 10 years ago to make a stupid point.

It was actually 13 years ago...

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...fpart=all&vc=1


Interestingly my arguments at the back-end of this thread are how people that try and trip other people out by asking about theorems that have already been proved, and using that as a way to infer people are stupid, is a total dick move and such people are asshats. QED