Macron was literally calling for a European Army a few months back. Did you miss that?

So are you saying Macron is completely lost and should never be listened to again?

I agree.

none of them took it seriously. it just meant a bit military cooperation between countries. not an actual army

I had accepted Brexit until this came out... NF I believe is also involved here, in some way illegal. Can't prove that yet thou.

The problem we have as a country is the brexiteers would never allow an investigation into the criminality of the leave campaign. These details have been barely dragged out into the open. If it sounds bad it is project fear and should be ignored regardless of it being demonstrably true.

Keep in mind brexit supporters refuse to listen to the will of the people with a second vote. Some have literally committed treason and under minded sovereignty and democracy approaching foreign nations to help scuttle a deal and asking for parliament to be dissolved until the dictator running the country carries out brexit.

Doing anything like investigating the leaves campaign would challenge the legitimacy of the referendum and the far right has transitioned fully from pretending to be for the good of the country to openly just being for brexit all else be damned.

Yes. It is also true a lot has changed since the referendum, not least we voted to leave so they don't care what we think on the matter any more.

@ [Phil] Agree with the above 100% and that's why it's so frustrating, even with the evidence that's in plain sight we know there was foreign intervention.

Churchill called for a European Army in 1950.

https://www.cvce.eu/content/publicat...ishable_en.pdf

That's not an EU army as people are opposed to, its an alliance.

spoke to my mum whos a brexiteer:

Her: i hate EU, forcing laws on us
me: How do they decide laws in EU?
Her: Oh i dont know!
me: What laws dont you like?
her: Pfffttt i dont know
me: Dont you think you should research that if you got such a strong negative opinion on it?
her: No, i dont have time. Nobody researches these things.
me: Do you not see the problem with having a a referendum if thats the case?
her: We didnt get to decide when we joined the EU. ive never liked EU. its who i am. Just like how people vote in elections. They never research, its because of how their parents voted. its just who i am. Its just my beliefs


Whats the ****ing point. Not even that convinced a second ref would make much a difference

Wait until you join me on "what is the point of democracy at all".

When can we vote to hand over all power to a sentient super computer?

When they stop being so racist

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_(bot)

It is the leadership's job to convince these people that they are worthy of having these citizens as followers.

"They haven't convinced me I can trust them enough to hand them power over me" is quite a reasonable way to structure the burden in this question.

Let's face it, only a total moron would be okay with handing over more and more power year after year to a remote and democratically disconnected superpower who have virtually zero comeback whenever they do make a terrible decision, and not see there's anything remotely wrong with that process.

It's kind of shocking a sizeable minority are that way.

A total moron would also fail to understand why a member of the single market can't negotiate its own bilateral trade deals.

Only a total moron thinks 0.9 recurring != 1

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gDxBN1y5C8o&

So good

Or would argue that they cant wait to leave the worlds biggest free trade zone, with the largest amount of world GDP in massively open and tariff free trading arrangement, so they can make their own trade deals.

FU Germany, France, Spain, Holland, Ireland,Italy, etc,Norway,Japan, Canada, Singapore, et al.

Hey Germany, France, Spain, Holland, Ireland,Italy, etc,Japan, Canada, Singapore do you want to do a deal?

lol wat.

Its the most moronic of arguments in political history.

Hey now, we already have a continuation deal in place with 6 of the 40 countries outside of Europe we already have deals with.

Sure, two of them are the Palestinian territories and the Faroe islands, but one of the two is counted as a country.

The fact that the bribe to the north to get votes for Mays deal is bigger than the gdp of both put together is a good thing. Small economies have the potential to grow the fastest.

There will be a Nissan dealership in the west bank selling Micras any day now.

Joking aside its funny how brexit supporters don't understand how the wealth of a nation and its distance are directly related to how good a trade deal is with them.

I can't even name a country we don't have a good trade deal with now, let alone a country we either will get a better deal out of when we negotiate alone separate from the combined power of the eu or who it is worth making a deal with.

Example, Malaysia has been trying to get a free trade deal with Europe for over two decades. Maybe we can get one tomorrow, but if we did most of the country is in poverty by western standards and everything we export there needs to be shipped literally the other side of the planet. Meanwhile China is next door, India is half the distance and even America is closer. They already have a massive financial economy in KL so what are we going to be getting out of the deal? They already ship their cars to us and can get the exact equiv of everything we make from Japan a short shipping lane away, to name one often quoted export sector we supposedly have a global advantage in.

Lol at polling showing increasing support for no deal, even as it is being repeatedly demonstrated it would be an absolute disaster for everyone in the country and set us on the path that rees mong says will take 50 years to recover from.

I bet if you point out that we will have to cut unemployment benefits, pensions and various other allowances due to the contraction of the economy support for no deal will evaporate.

It's tempting to agree with your last sentence because logic tells us to, but the whole Brexit vote has been characterised from the word go by the irrationality of emotion, nationalism and bigotry and the false accusations of FAKE NEWS that I wouldn't be the least surprised if the low-waged and jobless people who voted for it continued to support no deal.

A new poll shows 75% of newly eligible voters would back remain in second poll , which given that there are 2 million of them, represents strong support for the idea of a second referendum on May's vote vs Remain that's gaining traction.

Not targeting you in particular but the remain camp in general can point out all we like but it will make no difference unless as a minimum leavers don't perceive the messengers as condescending, arrogant people who think they are better, don't give a hoot about the poor communities in practice and think leave voters are basically stupid/bigoted/racists

If we do get a referendum with 'no deal' as an option* then we are in the political battle of our lives. Whatever happens we better start to sort out this political divide fast.

* and why the Remain vs May's deal idea looks so attractive.

Remain on a second ballot paper = not respecting the first referendum.

There's no getting around that, and to try and argue otherwise will work heavily against anyone trying to sell that line.

I don't know what 'respecting the 1st referendum' means.

but if it means having to give up the political fight then no I don't respect it.

You know how 'remain' was rejected in the first referendum?

We'll ignoring that result might be a tiny issue.