Several ministers have advised their constituencies that an election may be imminent, but they're probably playing games. The parties are tied, an election would only produce another hung parliament and the only point would be time-wasting, though of course an Art.50 extension would be required. (Incidentally, the EU Commission can initiate an Art.50 extension, simply notifying London and asking for UK consent.)

I'll also mention in this connection that C2DE 18-24s (i.e. the young working class) voted almost 60-40 Remain, and Corbyn's tiny mad clique are simply lying about how people voted because they want Brexit at all costs so they can set up 'socialism in one country', a Stalinist siege economy under a one-party police state.

Interesting and lends credibility to the report that Phillip Hammond assured business leaders no-deal is off the table. If this comes off as seems likely, it is certainly end game for May following both the rejection of her deal and her final no deal bargaining chip. Boris Johnson's desperate spin of the defeat as a mandate to go back to Brussels is pie in the sky, the EU is not reopening negotiations as confirmed this week. His interventions make sense only as a leadership bid. With both options of leaving off the table there is no doubt the process is going to be extended. Which *should* bring down the government, the singular mandate of which is brexit.

I see Ian Dunt's on point.

I read him. I even read jalfrezi and that's just about pointless these days.

but mostly I'm just pleased that someone noticed a post I was particularly proud of.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-fudge-bananas

Pleased to see you haven't stooped to the depths of the hoi polloi by insulting people.

Find out which Brexit deal is right for you

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-right-for-you

Says I'm no deal or Canada. I'd be interested what it coughs up for some people on here.


I'm confused though, it says Norway deal means no free trade deals, which was really my only 'must have'. Norway has free trade deals, so I don't get why they are saying otherwise. I guess it's cos Norway deals aren't direct, but through EFTA. Seems to be hair-splitting though...

I've certainly read elsewhere that a Norway style deal means the UK would be free to do trade deals elsewhere.

Diane Abbott accuses BBC Question Time of legitimising racism

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...imising-racism


Labour MP’s spokesperson claims she was mocked and interrupted more than other panellists

Lol, Diane Abbot was interrupting someone after their first word, literally.


I wonder if she ever listens to Dead Ringers lolz


She is the worst kind of politician. Talks bollocks, doesn't actually seem to know what she is talking about, and is sanctimonious and tetchy. Her and Thornberry make quite a team of dreadful.

I hope Labour field someone decent next week. Starmer, Benn, Angela Rayner would be a welcome change, but it'll probably be some duckspeaking Ingsoc gob****e like Gardiner or Long-Bailey

Just watched QT. I don't think DA is a victim of racism. There's something about her manner that people don't like, but it's not related to her skin colour or gender.

They mean if you're part of EFTA you can't negotiate your own free trade deals, but when you've got the combined weight of 400 million people and 27 countries behind you and using that purchasing power to strike deals for you, who would want to anyway?

I can at a stretch understand people not wanting the extra bureaucracy the EU brings but thinking that one country is gong to get comparable deals as a whole economic bloc will is the epitome of stupidity.

It would be like joining Costco and doing all your bulk shopping at your corner shop.

62/38 and every council winning a remain majority I would call massive. I'm going to guess it would be even bigger now.

Oh my bad, I thought it was 58/42. Not sure where I got that from, none of the other regions had that pattern.

ok, fair description, 62% is a clear mandate.

I don't really see what a general election solves at this point. FPTP with two parties running on a Brexit platform doesn't get us anywhere.

Rayner was so utterly terrible on Andrew Neil this week that they should lock her in a room with Burgon and never put her in front of the press again.

You're believing your own myths mate. Still I try harder not to leave you feeling insulted and wont resort to claiming it's not an insult if it's true

You miss the trade argument. We probably all agree that a much larger block gets a much better deal for that block's overall interests but that doesn't imply that it serves the interests of all parts of that block better.

I don't know and politically I don't care because I want to be in the EU whatever the answer is. Damn tough question though that's not to be dismissed so lightly.

Haha, she used to be terrible, but has got much better recently in everything I've seen her in. Maybe she's gone through the Ingsoc reprogramming room again...

Or just spent 30 minutes with Abbott and Thornberry at some point, that would fry anyone's brain...

People have a mistaken conception of how democracy works. Yes being able to vote is necessary but you don't just get what you want by voting for it. Democracy is far more than just voting.

I'm not saying leavers are wrong, I'm not saying there stupid or racist. I'm saying I disagree and am going to keep fighting my corner. It's the job of the leave side to come up with policies and get them through - they have mandate that helps them greatly but that's not everything. If leave fails it will be because leave never came up with some practical plan and the organisation to shoot into the empty net while they had the chance.

Just as it's the left's job to both win elections AND have the policies and organisation to make the important changes to move the country to the left. It's no good us blaming the people who disagree with the left for trying to stop us despite us having mandate - that's their job.

In USA terms, Trump has a democratic mandate for his wall. That doesn't mean the democrats shouldn't block it. It's his job to get it through, not theirs.

Ok, but MPs voted to have the ref, they voted to call article 50, and they have announced they would and do respect the result in virtually all parties.

Then voting something through which clearly doesn't respect the result ,shows contempt and disregard, and shows they don't play by their own rules makes them fair game for contempt, disregard and disrespect (and I don't mean shouty, threatening behaviour, but a disdain and clear cultural belief they are not worthy to represent people).


This will clearly and obviously create all sorts of problems that respecting the result will not create (though short term, respecting the result will create its own problems I would cede, but long term would be much, much healthier from a cultural point of view).

For the long-term health of the country, I hope they actually don't do anything that that overturns ref 1. We all have to live here, and none of us wants insurrection or far-right politicking becoming part of the mainstream in the way it has on the continent, where they are more heavily under the shackles of the EU and are poorly served by their mainstream politicians, who seem much more in the thrall of the EU.


The EU is recognised by a vast number of people throughout Europe to deliberately be operating to disenfranchise national governments to enfranchise itself, to move power from the elected to the appointed (with a group of rubber-stamping goobers lending validity to their actions in the abomination known as the European Parliament), to be moving away from cooperation to coercion, and people all over Europe are sick of it.

We're lucky in the UK that our mainstream parties have a strong streak of Euroscepticism so can absorb and work in a more consolidating way on these issues people have, rest of Europe not so lucky (yeah I realise 'lucky' doesn't seem the right word at the moment, but at next level thinking it really is) - we see what happens throughout Europe when mainstream politics just rolls over to the EU apparatus.

If leave don't come up with the plan and organisation then inevitably remain are going to interpret the result in the way that best suits them. Sure, if they individually stand on a platform and then disregard it then they deserve contempt but if a remain MP says they will generally respect the vote but wont support a hard brexit AND get elected then that's fine.

They can even stand on direct opposition to the referendum result if they wish. A few did but most remainer MP will support a soft brexit if some plan emerges precisely because of democracy.

Leave were too busy being against something rather than finding something to unify behind, that they could deliver if they won - that's their fault.

I have much sympathy with that view. it isn't enough through. As I've said before, if we do get to remain (and if we don't for that matter), we need to do a huge amount of work to heal the divisions in this country.

Fair, and not unacceptable imo as long as its not just 'I respect it and will try and deliver it' then don't try to deliver it at all.

The only really long-game healthy path to being part of the EU long-term is leaving, then campaigning to rejoin imo.

This will appear to be irrational to the shallow-minded, but obvious to anyone who understands cultural cause and effect.

My sense of things these days is that for leavers, immigration is diminishing as an issue, and sovereignty is rising as an issue, but I could be in my own bubble on that, as it's really the big deal for me personally (the root of it all for me is regaining control of trade policy, actually), so it may well be I'm just looking for stuff that self-confirms. Would be interesting to see some recent polls on what leavers' main issues are.

I think they would deliver it they could but look a the trouble May has had. It's a complete mess because there's no plan anyone can get even close to agreeing on so far. I'd dispute they aren't trying but apart from anything else it's the leavers who are blocking it because it isn't what theyclaim the vote was for.

I'm an unashamed 2nd referendemer (was even before we lost the 1st one) but we have had to keep pushing it despite the MPs being determined to find a way to deliver on the first. It's the cluster **** in parliament that is the wind behind us now and slowly converting MPs

There are clearly some not even trying to deliver it though. Hammond, for example.