Ok, Chez is out, because its Chez. Just straight trolling at this point.

Hopefully someone will be able to read statements by an academic and not arbitrarily call them dishonest and we can have an actual discussion about the issues raised thereby.

Yes always up for discussion with people who are interested in the actual discussion. Maybe one day with you ...

This never happened of course. It is why for now there can be no serious discussion with you

I can really see the next EU budget negotiations if the UK decides to cancel article 50.
UK: We would like to keep our discount.
EU: Lol no. Leave if you don't like that.

chez channelling his inner Maybot while sticking his fingers in his ears is one sight I didn't expect to see this morning, but thanks to Brexit norms are rapidly disappearing and are being replaced with empty rhetoric.

It's important as Labour supporters and Remainers to acknowledge that this version of the EU is far from perfect and may conflict with how we'd like to see a Labour government performing.

The crucial thing is to be inside the EU and trying to reform it from being economically right wing into something more progressive.

looool you're so funny.

Ok say EU has to consider reforms, which of these is most likely

[a] yeah we need reform, let's consider all alternatives and make the most rational choice that suits the citizenry
[b] we don't need reform
[c] MORE EU



Also, which one of these is more likely to provide more goodies in the trough for those on the gravy train? Let me think....

If in alliance with some other dissatisfied countries then [a] clearly.

It's quite clear to the EU that member states have gripes with some of its policies ffs.

Wrong.

Study one doesn't measure house prices, only "the housing market". House prices are not measured as a continuous variable, and the findings are therefore not relevant to discussions about house prices.

The other finding are limited only to areas immigrants move into. In fact, they conclude immigration likely drives house prices. lol.

This study, albeit conducted in Switzerland but lets assume the laws of supply and demand work the same there as everywhere else, confirms the above conclusion as they found for each 1% increase in immigration, house prices increased 2.7%.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=1533188

EU talk of reform been going on for years

Wont ever happen

Never with as much urgency or with as much pressure on the EU to accede to its members wishes.

Compare with the HoP and remind me how reform of the Lords, a body almost no one in the country thinks is fit for the job, went. It's always an uphill struggle persuading authorities of the need for change, but it can and will happen if enough pressure is applied by enough people.

HoL is another one that should go in the trash compactor

How that undemocratic monstrosity is allowed it live is beyond me

It's a derail but some sort of second chamber is needed to prevent bad law from entering the statute book. It's not always about policy but often about consistency and avoiding conflict with existing laws.

I'm not in favour of a fully elected second chamber because I think the numbers of Tory and Labour peers should be roughly in balance, but I hate how it's been gamed by PMs over the years by stuffing it full of benefactors and the obsequious in return for favours.

I agree.

Should be House of Experts, and have rough quotas for different sectors (scientists, business people etc).

Benefactors should **** off, and quota of ex politicians should be tiny

or only as big as it needs to be to offer decent guidance on lawmaking procedures etc

And balanced on party lines, like you said

Not sure about the title but scientists, philosophers, writers, business people, lawyers, accountants etc.

Also get rid of the honours system, another thing gamed by PMs: it's become an annual embarrassment.

I missed that news story. Link to evidence that the reform train is running?

News of substantive reform might well change my vote (and a lot of other peoples), depending on what the reform is.

I think around 18 months ago they did a white paper with some good reform options on it (that would have changed people's votes), but then it was ignored.

Doubtful. Most of you were just duped by the Boris bus and the closed borders charade. EU reform means **** all to brexitards en masse.

We also run into the same problem with this sort of discussion.

Chance the EU will not have reformed significantly within a few decades is ~0 but what that reforms will be and when they will happen are close to impossible to answer

The question we can address is whether the UK would have more influence on those reforms if we are a member - there's no concrete certain answer but a resounding 'yes' is a far better answer than 'no'

It's not impossible. How: Very, very high odds it will further centralise and consolidate. When: as soon as EU can game enough leaders into it by suitable schmoozing, flattery and ego indulgence.

That's all it ever is about.

The only direction of travel for the EU is ever closer union. They could quell the rise of far-right populism across Europe by changing Freedom of Movement to Freedom of Movement for Labour. How many people would object to this, aside from the most ardent Europhiles?

All the EU are effectively doing with their narrow-political idealistic crusade is fueling the rise of the far-right across Europe. Prolly not going to end well for anyone, that.

yes it's not impossible but cut I take it we agree it's highly unlikely. The 3rd bit contains an element of Yes Ministerish truth but it's far more complicated then that

The 2nd bit is I think the real bone of contention. You're concern isn't about the inability of the EU to reform, it's more that you think it's going to reform in a way that you don't want and that the UK influence might well also push it in a direction you down want.

I tend to agree with you but who knows. The road ahead for the EU is unclear and there's nothing to stop the UK being a powerful ally of the other more anti-centralising countries to push things the way you prefer.

How would a House of Experts have reacted to the idea of leaving the EU iyo?

Not their call. The second house should be about making legislation robust consistent and coherent, not trying to block the things they disagree with politically.

The latter is the massive problem I have with the Lords