Remainers get to stay in the EU, leavers get to be told we are in the process of leaving.

It's not really a runner, is it?

Obviously that won't make you look utterly untrustworthy and like a horrendous long-term partner for anything.

Works for me.
Revoke, 39 billion bill disappears, immediately invoke again, 2 years of proper no deal preparation

The way things are going, I am beginning to suspect that It's Cthulhu's hand moving the pieces across the chess board. I see wheels within wheels.

One wheel in particular that has begun to occupy my thinking recently is that, whilst many of my friends are very pro remain, they are also very pro Corbyn. Its a fairly contradictory position, in a vacuum.

The EU is a Neo liberalist centralist organisation, many of the more radical economical policies that Corbyn or any actually left of centre government might might want to pursue would be impossible as a member of the single market because they would be seen as giving unfair advantages to indigenous industries.

However there is a wheel within this wheel. I for one dont really remember the big appeal made to what should be a natural leave constituency (commie pinko lefties) made by the leave campaign. Had such an appeal been made it would have been a complete misnomer to the general semiotics of the leave campaign. It would have been the political messaging that turned up in fancy dress to a funeral.

This is because the left has somehow ended up defending the neo-liberal centre, they have been given a massive yank to the right by the right going completely off the reservation.

The right has rejected the project. What project? The project of man increasing his lot through the process of applying his reason to the world he lived in.

Whilst the left disagrees with the neo liberal, its a disagreement about the project. When the left and the neo lib now disagree with the right, its because the right has said the project can go **** itself.

The whole leave campaign was about the telling the project to go **** itself, which trumps the normal concerns the left should have about the EU, the left is pro remain, because it wants to defend the project, not just defend it, but keep it as the over arching meta narrative of political and economic action.

Just as an aside to this whole thesis, its worth remembering that Trump does not contrast himself against the Left, he contrasts himself against the Neo Liberal Centre.

It's not contradictory accept for those can't cope with disagreeing about anything. There is no purity test and nothing is perfect

Like most of those people you mention, I would be much happier if JC was strongly pro EU but we still support him because of everything else, and because we recognise his views on the EU come from a decent place even though we disagree huge mistake not to recognise how many on the left see the EU as in large part, a right of centre, big business lobbying powerhouse.

The labour party, now we have junked new labour, is also far more than the leader.

This all completely misses the point. Forget Corbyn, the point is that being in the EU frustrates a massive part of traditional Labour platform as regards State and the Economy, which is precisely why Corbyn is ambiguous about the EU.

The less New Labour you are the more anti EU should be if you actually want those Labour policies that really contrast themselves to the Neo Liberal centre to be enacted as being in the EU will make such policies impossible.

Really? It looks to me like a personality cult being lead by a man with no personality.

Looks very like the vote has been pulled, despite firmly repeating it will definitely go ahead for the last week. What an absolute total shambles - like everything she has turned her hand to with our country. Completely inept from start to finish.

.

Hah, how do you figure? The exit bill is just settling commitments that were made before the decision to leave. If you revoke A50 then the UK is still on the hook for these commitments, and arguably also for new ones from the next budget cycle.

Pound in freefall

STRONG AND STABLE.

This could be spectacular.

Mostly agree but last paragraph is problematic because America doesn't really have a Left.

i want this to happen

Okay but that's related and does get to the cruz of part of the debate

We (or me and I'm sure many others) do not see the EU as an impediment because we see a different EU that can overcome the business lobbying element and will make it easier to implement the left wing policies both in the UK and across europe. On the other hand many like JC still see the EU as more of an impediment because they see it as more dominated by the right of center business lobbying element.

I also think JC (and much of the left) are struggling with this. JC has moved a long way from being strongly anti-EU.

Then your debate gets very complex - if you're back to wanting the EU membership in order to impose left wing policies that otherwise would not be chosen by local democracy, I'll campaign to avoid that at almost any cost of short term GDP.

It's difficult to say the EU is liberal. It is protectionist at its borders and it doesn't like individual freedom to contract. Though I accept that the Working Time Directive was opt-outable for now.

no deals happening...

I'm hoping the Tory grandees have talked her into resigning, Raab gets job, proper drive to no deal and FU EU

The reality is extremely complex. the problem with the debate is people trying to make it simple and it just cant be done.

but no, the EU isn't imposing left wing polices. - that's the awful argument I referred to. It's removing divisions between people (along with peace and prosperity) that makes it easier to implement left wing policies

This would be amazing, sadly her hidden prime directive is never to resign.

Yes, putting a bloke in charge of Brexit that didn't realise that Dover-Calais was quite important sounds like a solid move.

The biggest problem with May's prime directive is she may try to struggle on through to closing time instead of bailing out earlier to somewhere better that's open 24/7.

It's a very odd situation. If her unwillingness to change tack results in a referendum with a vote in favour of remain, she will be hailed as an accidental genius; but if it results in no deal she'll be forever remembered as the PM who unnecessarily wrecked the country.

I'm not even sure she's fully aware of the dangers.

Yeah she’d do well to jump ship now and leave it to an actual brexitard to lead the idiots over the cliff.

Close, but other way round.