END IF imo

Corbyn is lying, unfortunately. The EU will not renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement. It's fixed. (And they don't bluff. Ask a Greek.) If the House won't pass the Withdrawal Agreement, the only option is Remain. And the Withdrawal Agreement is only No Deal in disguise (except for Northern Ireland), so the House shouldn't pass it.

You could get an entirely purple map by polling 34/33/33 in every region, and it wouldn't be 'truly amazing', it'd be an example of how stats and graphics can be very manipulative.

There you again, seeing extremism everywhere.

Why have the Tories insisted on keeping someone clearly so incompetent in charge during these negotiations?. It is having devestating consequences for our future. Her incompetence has been obvious since the campaign for the general election in 2017.

David Davis's resignation letter is looking bang on the money now.

https://news.sky.com/story/davis-dav...-full-11430720

I find it inexcusable she was not removed from power before we got to this point.

Otoh.

Only thing I find amazing about the graphic is the north of Ireland is missing.

You're talking to the wrong person about numbers.

I had a read of that link and what it describes is pretty frightening tbh. No real surprise it has gone unnoticed or just been ignored itt.

https://www.facebook.com/14982767671...6277191030347/

EU not going to move an inch on the backstop for numerous reasons and there is nothing else they can give. As far as I can see NI is the only place that supports the backstop, hardly a surprise tho because it gives us some protection from the coming armageddon. Would even say it makes this place an attractive place for business.

And has already been explained, if they open the negotiations again it's more than likely May will come back with an even worse option because Macron-fish/Spain-Gib and **** knows who else will be making their own demands.

I have no sympathy for the situation the UK gov finds itself in (just a pity I'm stuck living under their jurisdiction....bastards) and I'm surprised anyone else has. This is what was voted for, a blank cheque for the worst bunch of politicians ever. Given to them by the most ignorant electorate ever - this cannot be in dispute.

--

Hasn't been said enough but if by the smallest of chances May's nonsense goes through, there will be mayhem here in the north because if there is one thing the bigots can do that's mobilise their bigots at a moments notice.....all they have to say is 'its the dirty fenians fault, they're stealing our country and our FLEGS!'. We'll not be able to move for weeks on end.

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I watched the SNP guy on QT and he pointed out the previous government lies that were made concerning Scottish citizens ability retain their EU rights after the independence referendum, no matter the result. 2 years later and it's all went to ****.

Tory bastards dgaf who they **** over, so there could be a lot of surprises still to come.

Some truth in that but you can't absolve the brexiter side for being so useless.

They still don't know what they want. Hardest part of a 2nd referendum might be working our what the options are: 2 or 3 choices between: 'Remain', 'May's deal' or ????

That piece of piss that was exiting the EU has turned into threatening Ireland with famine. I am shocked to see walnut-brained Brexiteer Priti Patel advocating lunacy.

May's deal is busto. EU sez no other options on table. EU narrative is deal or no brexit, lollll.

Remain or No Deal, obviously (or we clearly just end up with May's deal as everyone's second choice).



The only ballot paper options remainers seem to want are:

[ ] Remain
[ ] Dont leave

You need to define 'no deal' better

You mean just just pure cliff edge or some wto+++

She's not dead yet

You realise a lot, and I mean a lot, of people are starting to see this as the absolutely last chance to break away from the EU. And they've seen how the EU have been quite bullying in all this.

I like the odds if it's Remain/No Deal ref

leave on 29th March. I don't care what terms*, JUST DO IT


* As long as we can cut trade deals, and have a path that we can finally disconnect one glorious day. The sooner the better obv as it's crumbling (wait till May elections loooool, Macron's gonna get a beating at the polls)

That wasn't quite an answer to the point but see it as your last chance as well barring some significant change of circumstances. I wasn't joking when I said you need to seriously consider backing a 2nd ref if you really want it (it was amusing but it was also a serious point).

edit:

i accept you don't personally care but if the brexiter camp have still not come up with some more specific proposal to be pushing for then that's what I mean about them being so useless.

I'm fine with a 2nd ref now, as long as there's no stacking for remain that could be fiddled by having a non-binary vote.

Remain
Leave (to be clear WTO on 29th March)


Remain have tried to stymie every single step of leaving, so above result must be placed in law before the ref, so it MUST be carried out without hinderance imo.

If there's any talk of negotiation then remain use it to leverage and break faith with result at any opportunity, so it seems to me another referendum must be cast iron and carried out (and remain can then do what they should have done in first place, focus on creating political climate to consider reapplying)

PS that's what I want if there's a 2nd ref, but I'd prefer it just spinning out and we leave anyway on 29th March. Same result without pointless vote imo.


Honestly, if remain wins, you think all this is over? You remainers are sadly blinkered about knock on effects and what this will do (maybe not you personally Chez, but 99% of remainers). Personally, I'll be turning my back on democracy as a way to get stuff done, it will be clear it's busted. It's painfully clear what the outcome of this will be: history tells us exactly what happens in a system where the governing body have failed... antipathy and growing hatred for the governing elite that failed the winners of the real referendum not the 2nd one with can be plainly sold as an EU rerun based on fear uncertainty and doubt, power vacuums, the rise of autocrats with simple messages and plain intentions, a surge in anger and hate...

And it's the agitating, anti-democratic remainers that have brought us to this, frankly, by gaming democratic process at every turn.


The only healthy way this can play out from your corner is if we leave and then decide to reapply. Every other course is a poisonous path.


I hope for the sake of democracy surviving in the UK, if there is this 2nd ref, Leave wins. And this time, I'm not meaning democracy surviving wrt escaping the non-democracy of the EU, but in terms of people retaining belief in the current UK democratic process.

There's no doubt who the big winners are. Let's hope the EU can fight them off without our help and despite brexit.

Or we could remain and fight the good fight.

The EU has been quite bullying as it enforces the rules that we both signed up to and helped to design and uses reasonable leverage to do what it sees as for its own benefit.

If anyone thinks that is bullying then I fear for them if they every get properly bullied.

It's such a mess that I wont rule anything out but I assume we agree that this is one of the most unlikely outcomes.

It's never over and I agree that remaining will have some very bad and ugly consequences. If the political world wasn't in such a dangerous place then I might not even think it was worth it. Unfortunately, I don't think 'healthy' is an option at the moment.

reasonable? lol.

Forcing an agreement where they will hold the whip hand without an end date is reasonable, is it? If the US did that to Mexico, say, is that reasonable?

if by good fight you mean game democratic process (and in turn help undermine the social contract underlying it) rather than accept democratic results and rework your strategy for a long-term sea change, then yes, carry on the good fight.

They aren't forcing anything. We can choose not to agree it.