Not specifically, but Schengen states have an obligation to defend the external border, so it's strange to see them criticised for actually performing their treaty obligations.

That there are total double standards in the EU - which people in the UK (not being European in any meaningful sense) are unaware of.

So for example the recent report the EP voted on about Hungary, mentioned discrimination against women. Fine, but the gender pay gap in Hungary at 9.52% is lower than that of Germany at 17.08%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap

The report also mentions that Roma children are disproportionately in special schools. The same could be said for any European country that has any kind Roma/traveller/Gypsy population.

They also mentioned about political attacks on Soros. Attacking one's opponents is normal in politics and if an expat attempts to get involved in politics then they are an easy target, similar to when Sir James Goldsmith tried to influence UK politics while (supposedly) resident in Mexico.

At the same time Spain has actual political prisoners and exiles and EP is silent. Double standards.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/25/u...ntl/index.html

Seems Labour showed its colors and will put a 2nd referendum on the table if May cant get a deal through parliament.

Labour's position on this is pretty shambolic.

I am wondering what the optimal result would be for the EU. Different MS will have different opinions about this, but a second referendum with a 52% majority choosing to stay in the EU because they are afraid of the financial consequences does not sound too appealing for either side. UK has been known to stall integration/ask for exemptions on a wide range of topics

Guess order is something like:
1. Switzerland/Norway type deal
2. UK comes back after second referendum
3. CETA deal with N-Ireland solution
4. No deal
5. Deal that allows for partial internal market eg cherry picking

https://www.theguardian.com/business...olitical-chaos

"Latest analysis show widening disconnect between good economic news and deep fears of a no-deal Brexit"

cmon remainers, Project Fear really, really isn't working. You've had nearly two years and it's failing as a tactic. Why don't you argue for the positives about staying in the EU, rather than the negatives of leaving?

It isn't because the positives are really hard to come by, is it?

May revealed her next step at the UN. The Uk will have the lowest taxes within the G20. That will go very well I assume.

Project fear by the government has had diminishing returns for many years now. It's incorrectly captured by the 'no experts' rhetoric

Ironically, the most effective use of project fear over brexit is likely to be Teresa May telling remainers (and the EU) that it's her deal or the apocalyptic no deal. She's not exactly being subtle about it either.

Hopefully but there's a very worrying scenario building because Labour's main position is a GE and then more negotiations on brexit. It's risking leaving the door wide open for the tories to get whatever deal (even a WTO++, maybe even a no deal) and then go for a general election if parliament wont back it.

If we have a general election where it's tories with any deal vs labour with more negotiations, then I suspect the tories will win big because so many people are sick to the teeth of brexit and just want it over.

Hopefully it goes awfully and labour win the next election. It's really very little to do with brexit.

LOL article in independent claiming latest polls show remain would win... By 52 to 48

Exactly the same statistics as the day before the actual referendum


Some people never learn

Then you have nothing to fear from a final referendum, do you?

When leave wins again, do we need a final final referendum?

Or, as you will, another 'people's vote' (cos somehow cats and dogs voted in the first one?)

Straw man.

You know very well a final referendum would give people a vote on whether to accept the government's final negotiated agreement (or hard Brexit if the clowns didn't negotiate anything).

In other words, a finer level of granularity than the generic In/Out vote.

Therefore there's no need for a further referendum if all options are fairly included in this one.

New EU national anthem:

Fairly included? I cant see how a simple binary choice can be topped for fairness....

So several choices then...so very little chance any of them will be over 50%, so none of them having true democratic mandate.

lolllll, the butthurt will do anything to prevent democratic process they don't agree with.

You do realise now the only real majority for anything is to get on with it, right?

i guess it does give remainers much more whining time. I know it's their favourite hobby, but, you know, the rest of us want to get on with it and get it done.

It opens up the possibility of arriving at a result acceptable to the greatest number of people, and certainly more than 50% of them, which isn't the case with a hard Brexit.

So you can hang your pork pie hat on that.

We already had a referendum that arrived at a result acceptable to the greatest number of people.

How is a 3 or 4 or 5 or more-way vote going to please more than 50% of people if a binary only just got over 50%?

Woolly thinking.
Wishful thinking.
Weak thinking.


It remains Lollz that remainers bleat on about a second referendum needed because people are better informed, yet the polls show the general voting pattern has barely changed. It's a clear and sneaky tactic that remainers just want a multiway vote to dilute the 'leave' choice so they can then argue 'ah, well, leave isn't over 50% any more so we don't have to leave'... they know the built-in opacity of a multi-way vote is a way to continue to muddy the waters and let them draw out this nonsense even longer... A likely outcome of such a thing is us tied to the EU CU and suchlike - the worst possible option, worse by far than hard brexit in the long term...


Project Fear is busto, get over it.

Can't wait til 29th March and this second referendum nonsense is a memory, hopefully we will scrape off the dog turd of anti-democracy that is the EU from our shoes and get on with life again.

Woolly and weak thinking is confusing something acceptable for something pleasing.

Didn't bother reading the rest of your post after that.

There are no arrangements in place.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/25/avoi...iata-says.html

The government's own no-deal advice notes admit that all flights will be grounded, as things stand. US-UK negotiations on replacing the EU Open Skies deal have broken down because the Americans are only prepared to offer inferior terms. Heathrow has set aside finances to allow for two months of no-fly. That's a disaster. And it won't get better. (Any more than BMW will re-open the Mini plant after the brought-forward 'summer shutdown' immediately after Brexit. Don't be daft. They'll just move production to Germany or Slovenia or anywhere less mad than this place.)

The Met Police in London are expecting at least three months of 'serious civil disorder', which is even worse than it sounds, since it involves the normalisation of theft and murder. And there's no reason it should end after three months, especially given that the country is predicted to run out of food by August. Medicines will also run out.

There are no serious plans for what on earth to do when the M20 turns into a gigantic static truck park, and the deeply unserious plans on offer -- assuming the hard shoulder will be available for endless ranks of Portaloos when there just won't be enough room -- don't work.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...os-for-14-days

Meanwhile the real purpose of Brexit becomes ever clearer. May has said that the Human Rights Act must be repealed, and we must resile from the European Convention on Human Rights that we ourselves set up, so that British citizens will no longer have even the right to life, and Brexit secretary Raab says that 'there are no social or economic rights,' clearing the way for the thinning-down of the plebs by extermination: by the stealth suppression of life expectancy. So the NHS will be sold to the Americans to run for profit. (And the same, incidentally, applies to primary and secondary schools. That sell-off too has already been advertised.)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/l...roup-5rxxd9tb8

Project Fear for a change.

That'll work.

Good to see the government upping the bombastic rhetoric at the conference. This is just the approach that we need.

From the Guardian:


Guy Verhofstadt, the European parliament’s*Brexit*coordinator, said: “We will never accept discrimination based on skills and on nationality.”


A great reason to leave.

Hypocrite speaking for an organisation built on discriminating by nationality.

He is making the same claim for the EU that you would make for the UK.

Neither restrict (at least idealy) movement or rights within the union based on the skills or nationality of people within that union.

Do you agree the EU restricts incoming migrants based on nationaility?

The difference is when did our govrnment claim to not restrict movement on nationailty?

They haven't.

So they aren't the hypocrite.