No, everything you posted is false. There were two wreath-laying ceremonies, recorded in photographs by the Palestinian embassy in Tunis. In the first, a wreath was laid at the memorial to those killed in the 1985 air raid. Corbyn was standing right at the back. In the second, at the Palestinian cemetery 5km away, Corbyn himself laid a wreath on the grave of Salah Khalaf, the Black September leader who ordered the Munich Olympics attack (Black September was not a breakaway from the PLO but a PLO unit under a cover name, and Khalaf was Arafat's deputy in the PLO), and Corbyn admitted to Channel 4 News that he did this, but lied that Khalaf was killed in the 1985 air raid when in fact he was killed by an Abu Nidal gunman more than five years later. Corbyn stated in his Morning Star article in 2014 that there were two ceremonies, one for the air-raid victims and another for those 'killed by Mossad agents in Paris in 1991,' which doesn't apply to Khalaf either. In the photographs, the wreath is unmistakably laid on Khalaf's grave, the one with the plaque in front of it.

Can you name any other trading blocks with own flag, anthem and thrust to create own army units?

As the other guy said this is a derail that should go in the other thread.
You should complain to the BBC if you think their account is false. I notice you didn't cite your own source.

'Align politically'

You'll have to ask one of the idiots what they mean by that cos it's nothing more than scaremongering.

I assume they mean one leader, one law and one parliament but they can clarify for themselves.

There is one parliament and one law (sigh google primacy of EU law)... But more than one leader, I grant you

Which leads to a follow up question of the one you didn't answer.

Can you name any other trading blocks with a parliament?

If you don't reply, we'll all just assume you were talking shyte when you said it's just a trading block, and move on.

In France the constitution is primary to EU law. Google it!

Practically it means little (though not nothing), but neatly demonstrates that it is a choice made by a nation to adopt the EU law (which they have a hand in writing) and a choice to continue to do so, which the UK is currently saying no to. Get off your fainting couch.

LOL ok

CARICOM and a bunch of "Communities" in Africa, not surprisingly modeled after the rather successful EU model, immediately come to mind. They all have parallel military coordination organizations and all of them have single currency or proposals for single currency.

You're showing your ignorance of the world, yet again.

Do they have a parliament too?

But no aspirations tp being a superstate tho, right?

Do you think thats just a trade block, or would you say it's more than a trade block?

Unfortunatly I think the EU is even in more trouble through Italy than the upcoming Brexit. If these clowns follow through with their ideas/threats I dont see how you can keep the EU together as it stands. You might end up with the EU of the richer northern states.
And I am getting increasingly worried. Germany needs the EU and hasnt done enough to prepare for the future(education, focus on high-tech) despite record tax revenues. Too many governments just doing an aweful job and satisfying the wrong people.

That has been pointed out already.

The existential threat to the EU isn't considered enough. It's not just brexit but it's a decent chunk of the reason that brexit is so catastrophic for those of us concerned about the rise of the right, nationalism. trump, putin etc - it's those forces that most want us divided, competing and blaming each other.

I'm optimistic that enough in the EU realise this and will do everything they can to avoid an acrimonious split with the UK. Less optimistic about the UK's side of this as the key brexiters are spoiling for a fight with the EU.

On passports. Let's bring back a stiff, hard passport, slightly too big to fit in a pocket. Maybe we can make it very heavy as well. On opening it could play god save the queen.

Lol, you do realise they've essentially given no ground whatsoever. It's not a negotiation, it's a stonewalling. I realise they are doing it cos they are wanting to punish the UK for daring to want to leave and because they think it's a good idea to be pricks to maintain the integrity of inviolable rules that someone made up 20 years ago and are now written in stone (mainly because the aspirations to federalisation cannot be questioned rather than doing things that are good for the citizens of their member states), but even suggesting they are doing everything they can to avoid an acrimonious split is ridiculous.


OTOH, Good thing, the cleaner the break the better. Everything might turn out very well in the long run, despite having May effing everything up along the way.


you do realise the reason for the rise in the right is something that happens when people feel they have little to no democratic representation, right? That their concerns are being wilfully ignored? And it's interesting that so many places the EU have influence and power is where this is happening.... instructive about the EU, don't you think?

watching these morons cannabilise themselves is actually glorious. Going from racist position to ‘well we may suffer in the long term but that’s ok’ is hilarious. Are you enjoying your Brexit db?

Counting the days till end of March

So you think racists should have democratic representation? This is just the easist lie that these people have because all these years they were forced to elect the same people. Nah the rise of the right happens because people just hate other people, esp people from other countries because they dont deserve what we have. Guess what: If I give them the opportunities in life some of these dip****s had there would be decent chance they would have made more out of it. These idiots think refugees threaten our welfare state which gives even the dumbest people some basic stuff in life. They are afraid that this could end. They dont want to improve their lifes they want the old times. But time moves on.
If these people get their way I think in few decades we will all be poor because they dont understand how our wealth got accumulated, how all works together and so on.
People voted against their self interest for years and blame refugees and foreigners. Who are they gonna blame after we closed the borders and their situation didnt improve. We have so many jobs open yet there are people who have none. Guess what they either dont want to work, dont want to switch professions or are too dumb.

I think everyone of voting age should have democratic representation. Ie they should be able to vote in or out people in charge.

Unlike, say, the people of Greece have.

It's spelt 'bloc'. And people who can't spell tend to be idiots.

There's no earthly reason why they should.


No. In the long run, as Keynes remarked, we are all dead, and that will certainly happen well before Brexit ever works out, because it never will and never can.


No, it's just racism and xenophobia. But kind of you to announce out loud that you are in fact a member of the racist xenophobic right bent on destroying civilisation and are thus the enemy. Not that we didn't already know.

I think it's a very interesting area and it's not that simple. Sure the EU's defending it's principles and hasn't yet conceded much ground but it's in a very awkward position because the UK position is so lacking (near non-existent for a long time) and May is so weak at home. The reality is that the EU is working hard with the UK to try to avoid a no deal and is more frustrated by the UK side than intransigent.

The 'punishing the uk because a thriving UK will be bad for the EU' is way overdone. Everyone will think less of the EU if it is seen to have harmed the UK just to punish it - and the EU knows that. They also know that harm to the UK will also mean harm for a lot of the EU - if that's seen to be the EU's fault then that's a disaster. Also, the forces that want to leave the EU will be galvanised by any idea that the EU punishes fellow travellers in the leave-EU cause. People seriously do not like to be threatened with punishment for their views on self-determination.

I acknowledge the point but it's only part of the picture imo. The rise of the right in Europe is down to many other factors including immigration from outside the EU and, most importantly, economic failures. The impact of the financial crises is overlooked too much, as is the general problem of capitalism in a world where labour increasingly isn't very valuable (big topic).

Chezlaw,

good points and I definitely accept it's more complex than I paint it, but I'd also suggest the EU's first concern above everything is the EU, not the citizens of its member states. I accept that this is because it believes the EU is the best thing for its members (compared to no EU), but I'd also argue a much improved (and a bit diminished in its powers) EU would be much, much better still.

While it continues to pay lip service to self-reform rather than actually reforming, and continues to push the 'more EU' line about the best way to reform rather than 'less EU' or 'different type of EU', I consider it wholly unfit for purpose.

Lack of fitness for purpose and no mechanism to address its democratic deficit is why we should leave. If there were genuine mechanism in place to reform and countries had a less straightjacketed existence within the framework (it's currently pretty much 'computer says no' if you don't want to do something the EU says you have to), I'd be a remainer. But then, remain would have easily won if the EU weren't so dogmatic about its political doctrines and obsessed with putting mechanisms in place that are clearly steps to achieve statehood.

Years ago I'd agree with you but these days I think it's for more complex reasons than that personally. I think people are feeling disenfranchised & the rise in the right is just a surge in the rise of populism in general as people feel they have no other option. I suspect Brexit & Trump being elected are part of this malaise as well as the five star movement being elected in Italy & the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn gaining popularity in Greece in recent years.

Several years ago the French National Front gained significant votes in the election, but then when push came to crucial shove the French rejected them. That could be seen as a protest vote as opposed to xenophobia.

I've seen the same thing happen in Ireland with either socially/politically radical independent candidates or the likes of Sinn Féin getting more votes. That doesn't mean that those who vote Sinn Féin are necessarily Irish Republican though & they may not even care about the north, but are probably simply pissed off with Fianna Fáil due to their corruption scandals or Fine Gael due to the current housing/tenancy crisis. In the 80s in certain Dublin lower economic neighbourhoods desperate parents living in the middle of a horrific heroin epidemic turned to Irish Republican groups in desperation. None of the parents were necessarily Republican they just wanted the pushers out of their neighbourhoods. And if that took IRA/INLA kneecappings to achieve this then so be it, was the mindset- better than all their children becoming addicts, OD's rampant crime and small kids getting pricked by discarded syringes at a time when HIV was nowhere near as as manageable a condition as it is now. I don't think they thought much beyond that, really.
That's not to say such things are right- they aren't- but it simply was what it was and neither the police or the politicians at the time were doing anything about it. So they turned elsewhere. Just as people are turning elsewhere today due to their own uncertainties and fears.

Such issues affect people's day to day lives & when faced with such disruptions,uncertainty and fear, then once someone comes along & starts saying all the right things & how they'll make it all better...

I think people are scared these days & when people are scared & uncertain they don't always turn down the right avenues to assuage their fears but I honestly don't think it's necessarily just xenophobia & racism although you'll definitely get such elements also. But again I personally think it's more complex than that ultimately. It's not just regarding the alt right or populist parties either, I think protest movements such as Occupy Wall Street can be seen as a manifestation of such uncertainty also.