Even grant shapps is saying there wont be (and shouldn't) a leadership challenge. May is surviving for now and probably coming out stronger.

Back to the plan and the negotiations with the EU which are close to getting real.

She should go now for her own sake. At this point she can credibly stick davis, johnson et al will the brexit ****heap. They got us into this mess with lies on buses they ****ed around for 2 years doing nothing of consequence (just conviently sidestep that I did nothing very much either) and when it came to the crunch they bailed out, ran and hid. But if she hangs on and hangs on and scrapes by and "delivers" it's gonna be 'Mays Brexit' in the history books. Not gonna be a good look in the future I imagine.

I agree May is coming out of this pretty well. I can't see how anyone other than a Brexiteer could (or would) challenge May; Boris' goose is cooked, and Davis clearly isn't up to it and would be easily defeated, further strengthening May's position.

D-Day for the Tories will be when the EU refuses their deal. I think the Tories deal is okay if it was the final deal, but not as a starting position for negotiation as any concessions immediately cross several red lines for Brexiters, including ones May has committed to, leading to an obvious leadership challenge.

Yep. It's a terrible starting position, much like Cameron's was

I would guess remainer civil servants at heart of this, just like Cameron again

Seen a little bit of news last night and in response to the DUP the lying bastard May said that the previously agreed backstop on the Irish border is now unacceptable.

Yeah no May is pandering to the bigots still. Not a good look.

****s are just winging it from one day to the next with no clear plan. This is over 2 ****ing years later. Good luck putting your faith in those incompetent lying bastards.

That or Davis/Johnson/Fox failed to produce anything apart from vague promises but no actual plans. It's better to blame remainers though.

Yeah that's fair. It's a bit of both.

May's fundamental problem is that she is trying for a softish brexit which is a) complex, b) politically difficult in her own party, c) something almost no-one wants and d) something almost no-one wants

Now strictly speaking c) and d) are the same but ....

If we pretend it's some great cause for a moment then post general election she's doing a pretty impressive job. Worrying impressive from my pov as she looks like she might just steer it over the line without a 2nd referendum

I must be having a massive reading comprehension failure here because c) and d) do look the same.

Hopefully she brings Prince Philip with her and we get some entertainment from that conversation.

Phil and Trump can bond over their mutual hatred of darker skins, of course.

I was emphasising the significance of the point. As in...

If May wants a bump in the polls she just needs to recreate that dumb scene from love actually where prime minister hugh grant gets all up in the lecherous american president's grill for coming on to billie piper or whoever and he's like britain doesn't necessarily stand with your stupid country mate. PM out! (mic drop)

Looks like a fun week in the UK with WC, Trump, and Brexit craziness. I know very little about Brexit and UK/EU politics, but it seems like a 60-65% vote threashold for leave would have been a good idea. In any event, hope someone finds a way to redo the vote.

Agreed, but too late for that now.

Cameron, as a member of the ruling elite from birth, assumed he would win the referendum comfortably and that would be the end of it, the useless fool.

BRITAIN is now officially a banana republic with constant sunshine, collapsing government, depreciating currency and a good football team

via twitter

Only if there had been a similar threshold for joining and at each stage of increasing commitment, else the system would be biased to take a route contrary to democracy.

In the US we ratified the Constitution through state conventions with a 50% requirement. A popular vote in one state failed, but "Finally, Rhode Island, which had rejected the Constitution in March 1788 by popular referendum, called a ratifying convention in 1790 as specified by the Constitutional Convention. Faced with threatened treatment as a foreign government, it ratified the Constitution by the narrowest margin (two votes) on May 29, 1790." https://www.archives.gov/education/l...ification.html

There was, contrary to democracy, no ability to exit, as shown by the Civil War.

The Brexit [Political] Dilemma

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...lity-of-brexit

https://www.politico.com/story/2013/...are-aca-097687

Why am I posting links to two (seemingly) unrelated political articles - one concerning a British matter (i.e. Brexit) and the other concerning an American issue (i.e. healthcare reform)?

The answer is in the second article by Todd Purdham. His basic point, that in a democracy or a representative form of government, major social and economic change - change that will have a sweeping impact on the broader economy - must have bipartisan political support. Lacking such support and "buy in" from both major parties, such efforts are doomed to failure. That has been the case here in the United States where Republicans, led by Trump, have managed to eviscerate Obamacare. It appears increasingly likely this will also be the case for Brexit - a slow motion train wreck born of political miscalculation and an inability to compromise.

Some issues are so important - and so far reaching in their consequences - that they must be approached in a spirit of compromise. In a democracy, one party can't shove its "agenda" down the other party's throat - and expect it to stand over time.

I believe it was your leader, Winston Churchill, who once famously quipped: "You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing - after they've exhausted all other possibilities." Here in the United States, at some point in the future, (hopefully) Democrats and Republicans will realize that continued strident partisanship only digs the hole deeper. It may take another "crisis" of some sort for that realization to sink in, but the salutary effect of a crisis is that it tends to focus the mind and force compromise. I'm certainly no expert on these matters, but that may be the solution to the Brexit dilemma - a crisis that forces both the Tories and Labour to compromise for the greater good of the country. The two parties don't appear to be at that stage yet, but time (and circumstances) will force the issue.

Unless there's another election (and Corbyn pulls the upset and manages to beat "Don't Know"), Labour are utterly meaningless in the context of Brexit. This isn't the senate where the minority can filibuster etc, May can have any Brexit she wants, the problem is the Tories fighting amongst themselves and the inconvenient fact there is no good solution because both sides (EU and UK) have red lines that are utterly incompatible.

tom:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you seem to be describing is an impasse.

This appears to be the political equivalent of two geological faults pushing against each other. The pressure builds until something gives - the faults move and a massive earthquake occurs. The only question is the magnitude of the eruption.

In the political context: When does Britain (one of the faults) and the EU (the other fault) move? When does the fault break with the resulting [political] earthquake? (I have a feeling this can't drag on indefinitely with nothing happening. Sooner or later every fault slips with the resulting release of energy.)

Less immigrants = smaller talent pools = more football fails

Banks

Cohen, Charlton, Moore (c),Wilson

Ball, Stiles, Charlton, Peters

Hurst, Hunt.

Not many immigrants there.

The game has progressed in leaps and bounds since 66 but unfortunately England, as we've seen in this tournament, are still technically behind other countries despite the ability to score from set pieces, and they lack creativity.

England's most creative players of the past 30 years were called Gascoigne and Rooney, which rather refutes your point.

Gascoigne in a totally different class

but then Glen Hoddle