hammond's idea is that we'd stick with rules which prevent us signing traid dealzzz with others but wouldn't prevent us negotiating them, so presumably the plan is to spend a few years hammering out dem dealz and then when enough of them are ready to go, drop out of the customs union

some eutards seem determined to make the process as painful as possible for all concerned tho so maybe they'd try to prevent such an arrangement

Carney warns of the road ahead.

The strongest argument in the Remain campaign was that it would be chaos for five years. The thing is, that's a vanishing small timeframe in order to have a country that will be around for centuries.

They are still predicting the UK to be richer in 2019 than in 2016 - in fact the projections now are closer to the projections before the referendum assuming a Remain win than they are to the post-referendum projections.

If that is still too much to pay to have your own country then you don't deserve to have one.

No it wasn't. The strongest argument against Brexit is that it was simply a racist clamour, a two fingers up, a shredding of norms we hold dear, a political land grab by a fringe bunch of lunatics who represent the few and hope to control the many.

If the strongest argument is complete nonsense, then we're good right now .

'It must be bad because those people I don't like support it / the opposite is good because those people I like agree with it ' is a cognitive bias - the halo effect, right? That's a 'mistake' in decision making terms, and you'll be quite likely to lose Sklansky bucks.

So you voted on the complete future of your country based on personalities you don't like in early 21st century politics?

Reminds me of my reaction to this:

Yes - I despise the right and their particular brand have personalised Brexit.

Get ****ed - you don't even live in this country.

My grandparents died in WW2 to protect the UK from authoritarianism and I will not sacrifice what they believed in for a ****ing tax cut for people who have no humanity.

I'm an internationalist not a nationalist - hence why I have equal contempt for labour on this matter.

To paraphrase Didier Drogba - it's a ****ing disgrace.

If your grandparents died defending independence from a non-consensual absorption into Germany, I'm not sure voting EU-remain is the best way to honour that.

The EU's trading environment creating protection for big business vs small business is pretty much a tax cut for people with no humanity, if you must put it that way.

I thought this opinion was note worthy...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/...anging_my_vote.

The Soviet Union and the European Union are not comparable.

It's far from the worst reason I've seen for voting for Brexit...

in the real world 67% of latvians voted to join the eu, with much of the opposition coming from the more russian friendly minority, and the english voted out because they hated seeing latvian grocery shops popping up around town.

classical liberals against the eu is still by far the dumbest position.

Anti EU sentiment was strong in the UK long before the free movement issue became a big one. And it comes from the left as well as the right.

We need to find a route to a 2nd referendum and then win it. As we really don't want to stop free movement, we better address those who have other objections - that isn't helped by confusing the two.

True but I am a citizen and may well return one day - though probably outside the 5-year timeframe you think in so I suppose it doesn't count.

What do you think is going to happen in a post Brexit UK, taking into account that the UK were the strongest proponents of neoliberalism in the EU?

I think we can both agree this to and fro isn't going to get us anywhere.

But, at no point have I ever indicated anything about any 5 year time frame. You are impressing upon me a **** argument I have never made.

Brexit will **** this country for ever, until we return to the fold. Amusingly it will **** us in quite imaginative ways people really haven't thought about yet as they are taking the most granted of granteds for granted.

That is utter nonsense.

Probably best to quote a full sentence to have a honest argument.

That is utter nonsense.

Yeah, it's not.

Atleast I made you vaguely honest!

This week there was a article on german news site who gets hitted hardest by Brexit.

Interestingly the regions who depend a lot on jobs of the export industries voted for Brexit and might be the biggest victims in the future. For the first time since the 1970s the UK exported more cars than it imported. About half of them go to the EU. Airbus produces all wings for their civil planes in Wales and delivers them to France and Germany. I doubt that will be the case after a hard Brexit. The other EU nations probably want these potential jobs. Well and businesses only look for profits. If there are tariffs it will hurt them so production might move.

http://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Wen-de...e19893214.html Its in german. Maybe you can translate it if you want to read it.

Well thats quite a statement. Even if you only have 0.1% growth you The UK will be richer. But are you even close to that what you what have achieved within the EU?

A little less money is worth it for democratic accountability.


Still so relieved Blair didn't sign us up for the deutsche mark

You do realise atomic bombs dropped on Japan and that didn't **** them permanently. You think brexit is more devastating than that? Really?


Even the worst economic crises do not **** an individual country permanently.

Think about it a bit.

Srsly you can stop with this bull****. Where is your democratic accountability for the Iraq war when you are so hard rooting against taking refugees? You want accountability then help cleaning up the messes you created in the first place. How much reparations did the UK pay for starting a war without UN approval which was against the law of nations?

Wat? I'm not hard rooting against taking refugees. I have no idea what you're talking about.


None of your points are anything to do with democratic process, more about a sense of justice maybe? You seem confused.

Also, we had democratic accountability. We had the ABILITY to vote Blair out.

The ability to vote someone or some party in or out - one that can make laws, rescind laws and change laws - is what democratic accountability is all about.

Something no one can do in the EU.

If you disagree, please tell me the process by which ordinary people vote in or out the people that frame the laws to be voted on by the EU Parliament?

By going to a voting booth when their local and EU elections are? Pretty sure you have been told how this works many times in this thread and still come back to the same nonsense. I hope you are working hard to abolish the house of lords.