The only thing a weak pound helps is our exports, however that is going to be practically moot by the fact that we export more to Holland than China.

Friedman, Krugman and all kinds of smart people were saying the euro was a terrible idea. It was a political idea, not an economic one.

Now they're all saying there will be a cost to Brexit because everything tells us there will. You guys are just handwaving that away.

The funniest Out claim I've heard yet is that leaving will allow the government to invest more in UK industry and training. What a ****ing joke.

That's not clear to me at all. There are many countries that have free trade throughout Europe without being part of the EU. Such as, for example, Norway, Switzerland, Iceland, Turkey, Georgia, South Africa, South Korea, Mexico and the Isle of Man.

A dystopian British society may not be restricted to sci-fi and fantasy novels for much longer.

I just haven't seen anything that presents a bright future should the Brexit occur. A lot of the people in favor seem to be putting ideology before practicality. Kind of like cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Countries with full access to the single market (Norway, Switzerland, Iceland) all accept free movement of workers, so that's probably not happening.

The other countries have agreements but not full EEA access, e.g. Turkey/EU have a customs union that doesn't cover services, which would be essential for the UK.

Also, lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8&t=840

If all these economists were predicting doom for the Euro, why did half the EU join it?

Because they didn't listen ldo.

Didn't they think that adopting the Euro currency was a bad idea? Pretty sure they would think the free trade zone would be a positive. Two separate things. Many of the other Euro countries would do better if they were on their own currency but still members of the free trade zone, like Britain.

french politicians thought it would a nice way to limit german power, so they forced the germans into it if they wanted to be reunited. the rest followed because it seemed like the thing to do.

that's kinda what i meant. sorry if i worded it wrong.

One/the major point of criticism about the Euro (e.g. Stiglitz, Krugman) is that it was introduced without a clear path to a fiscal union. And to my understanding it's not even controversial that having a shared currency without a fiscal union is very problematic in the long term.

As was mentioned before, the Euro was also a political project that was supposed to set us on track for a closer union. The countries joining were optimistic that we could progress to a closer union before running into major troubles. The status quo isn't the Eurozone endgame, we just got stuck along the way.

The EU is going to hell in a hand basket and we're the ideological idiots?

Politics.

Again though Euro being bad is a simple prediction from starting principles.

Hmm Greece same interest rate as Germany, what could go wrong?

It's not only a free trade zone, as you point out it's also a customs union forming a barrier to trade with those outside it. The thing is that's a reason to be on the "World" side of the barrier not the "Europe" side of it. If not now, with exports split 44%-56% (10 years ago, the split was the other way round), will you change your mind when the split is 40%-60%, 35%-65% or 30%-70%? - because we will see all of those over the coming decades as the EU shrinks in terms of share of world population and world economy - unless you re expecting the GDP/capita differential between Europe and the rest of the world to be maintained. Also the raw volume isn't the only issue. There is less gain from trading with similar economies (sending cars in both directions across the channel) than with economies that complement our own more (i.e. different products).

European currencies in general are overvalued as an effect of the "fortress Europe" customs union in operation. The pound would have to be lower if we were trading more with RoW and less with Europe than currently, so yes Brexit would lead to a lower pound - that's why exports to RoW would increase as we could undercut our European competitors paying EU rather than world prices on their imports. A lot of the flag-wavers in the Leave camp are keeping quiet about the "weak pound" but yes, the markets are pricing that "risk" to the value of the pound in. Whether that's a risk to the individual depends on whether you are an importer or an exporter obv.

Because the only politicians saying it were essentially the same types of people who are now running the Leave campaign and it was easier to dismiss them as motivated by nationalism (which was probably fair comment) rather than ignoring personalities and looking at the arguments. It was a pretty close call for the UK (we actually didn't qualify and there was an aspect of "well we don't want to join anyway") but the PM of the day wanted us to join. I do think the debating culture in the UK is slightly more healthy than on the continent too, though that's not saying much.

This is a good video of Professor Minford quizzed by MPs about these issues.

That's only partly true because you would have to renegotiate with the RoW otherwise they just slap your goods with tariffs to protect themselves. The EU is just very strong and can ask for better conditions than single countries. The Chinese would laugh you out unless you make huge concessions to them. Right now they want to be upgraded to a market economy so its easier for them to get their goods into the EU. EU tries to prevent that or the european steel industrie seems to be doomed and thats just one sector. UK was one of the nations which wrote a letter regarding that to the EU.

tarrifs are bad for everyone, We've known this for close to a hundred years.
You'd be insane to think china would put up a huge tariff wall with Britain they arn't idiots

None of these has completely free trade with the EU, it's an outright lie.

Oliver made Brexit hilarious. I have faith in you Brits to do the correct thing and stay.

The Warsi defection may be good for Remain but her reasons are peculiar. It's understandable that the 'Breaking Point' poster could sway an uninformed person who was on the fence, but the facts and arguments for each side haven't changed. I would have expected an experienced politician to come to a view that's based on more substantive things than the nonsense people say when campaigning. Maybe there's more of a basis to her decision than it appears.

Lol China doesn't need them. They want UK or EU to lower theirs so they can sell their goods which are produced with much cheaper labour. How do you think that will work out for the UK when they have much less negotiating power and need the market.

Eh?

Dollar tho.

You realise that tariffs already exist right?

no probably not.

Nissan are suing Vote Leave for using the company's logo without permission (and falsely claiming that they'll stick around after Brexit, which they obviously won't).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36573766

The NHS has of course told Leave to stop using the NHS logo without permission and Leave haven't taken any notice. Perhaps before Thursday the NHS ought to initiate legal action.

Can I bitch for a moment about how stupid "Brexit" is? Because it's really stupid. These people INVENTED the ****ing English language ffs, make better use of it. They gave the world Chaucer, and Browning, and Shakespeare, and Lord Tennyson, and Wordsworth, and Tolkien, and Austen, and Milton, and Keats, and Blake, and Lennon. From THAT stock comes stupid **** like "Brexit" and Boaty McBoatface???

Step up your game, there's a good lad

No they are not, is this going to be the latest total utter bull**** meme from OUT.

A very weak pound is utter AIDS for the UK economy and the effect of the weak pound has been pretty much front and center of nearly all economic forecasts I have read on the effects of Brexit.