As much as complain about UK politics (clowns such as Corbyn, Farage, Boris, etc), having seen the RNC, and now the leaked Democrat emails, I still think we're a long way off the farce that is US politics.

Is this a level or serious?

Maybe its a sarcastic way to point out correlation does not mean causation, but in once case there clearly is causation and in the other not so much.

there's about 5% chance you actually opened that given it opens with this sentence "Emigration has led to positive outcomes for CESEE migrants themselves, and for the European
Union (EU) as a whole." and further on talks about poland being a netreceiver of immigrants.

but i would love to see the freedom of movement sceptics itt expand on the idea that emigration hurts wages in the countries they're leaving while simultaneously hurting wages in the countries hurting wages in the countries they're moving to. because that not contradictory and just made up to fit the occasion at all.

this kinda surprised me tho

Would be interesting to know the % for the UK in that chart. Amusing that Austria (8m) has a higher share than the UK (64m) though, apparently "we" somehow dealt just fine with 8+ times higher CESEE immigration per-capita.

is it conceivable any remainers can actually discuss controlling immigration without throwing out accusations of or implying racism?

It's like talking to Gordon Brown.

It's even funnier when you try and justify that no immigration control is OK in EU but bad between EU and RoW - and talking imms control within EU is racist (according to remainers), but between EU and RoW is not racist (according to remainers).

Hilarious duckspeak.

So no social tensions in Austria then?

did I miss someone expounding this idea before you mentioned it?

This thread will dry up if and when Trump gets presidency. That will make this local EU nonsense be properly put in perspective, other than the hissy fit between the boohoo-EU and the UK. Especially if it leads to nato destabilisation.

What on earth are you talking about?

Not over EU immigration, no. The refugee crisis was a big topic during the election though.

the imf paper you just linked speculates that eu emigration might hurt the wages of those left behind (in part because the emigrants are fairly high skilled). a recurring argument itt has been that eu immigration hurts the wages of people in the countries they are arriving in.

those two things are pretty hard to reconcile, but if someone wants to they should give it a go.

Firstly Phil I think is an open borders guy so he'd be in favour of reduced immigration control between the UK and the rest of the world so this argument does not have traction against his view. Secondly it's a mistake to talk about immigration control between the EU and the RoW, outside of the EEA nation states are free to enter bilateral agreements with those outside it.

It seems disingenuous to try and make the case for increased freedom of movement while backing a leave campaign that was based on reducing it.

lol ffs have you heard of data points?

That awful SaraNovember's posts have all been removed. Was he banned for being racist or for being someone else's (rastamouse?) account? Good riddance anyway.

Because those who can will be building nuclear fall out shelters, and some of the others will be considering what their Plan B is.

The two things can very obviously both be true at the same time (whether they are or not is another matter.)

multi-accounting to seem like there are a large group is standard for racists just like kremlin bots.

While working a picture puzzle Thursday night, my 83-year-old mother and I were listening to "The Donald's" acceptance speech. My mother detests Donald Trump - she can't stand him. She has told me (many times) that she cannot understand what [some] people see in Donald Trump. Mother is financially secure - some might even say "well off" - at least when it comes to daily living. She doesn't worry about living expenses and whether or not she can "pay the bills" the way most (many) people worry.

I try to explain to mother - she's 83 years old and suffering from dementia - that a lot of people are having a hard time making ends meet. These people, a substantial portion of them, are frustrated and angry. They feel, rightly or wrongly, that politicians don't give a rat's a** about them. They feel that they are steadily falling behind. Many of them haven't had a pay raise in years while the cost of virtually everything keeps going up. All these "trends" contribute to the frustration and anxiety.

Now of course, not everybody feels this way or agrees with this outlook. If you're a member of the "One Percent," things couldn't be better. But the vast majority of people are not one-percenters - and that's the crowd Trump is playing to. He's your classic definition of a demagogue as I'm not sure even he believes half of what comes out of his mouth.

The one thing Trump does understand is how to play on peoples' fears and anxieties. In that respect he reminds me of Adolph Hitler. (I'm not being facetious.) I don't intend to vote for Trump - I'll be voting for Hillary - but I live in a state where I know I'm in the minority. (Thank God my state has only 9 electoral college votes.)

A lot of "experts" (like Nate Silver) think Trump has very little chance of winning. The worrying thing is that "the experts" were saying the same thing about Hitler - that he would never rise to the top - until he rose to the top. The "experts" also predicted Brexit would fail ... If anything, Brexit has shown how out-of-touch some [a majority?] of British politicians have become with their constituents. There's a fear this same "out of touch" dynamic is at play here in the U.S. Sensing this, Mr. Trump had the instinct to exploit this unease. Now, against all the odds and the collective wisdom of all the "experts," he is the Republican Party's nominee.

I have my doubts that Trump can pull this off. In order to win, he's going to need a huge proportion of the "white" vote - as well as a huge [overall] voter turnout. White folks are not a monolithic voting bloc - a substantial number of them vote Democratic. Self identified "Republicans" are also a minority in this country - I think they're somewhere in the 30 percent range. Democrats are in the 30-40 percent range with most of the rest identifying themselves as independents. (Independents, like my mother, love to say that they vote for "the person" and not the party.)

I think it will not be good for the country (not to mention the world) if Trump is elected President. However, one has to acknowledge that it could happen. There are a lot of angry and fearful people this time around. On top of that, voter turnout in the Republican primaries was much higher than usual while Democratic turnout was lower than usual - not a good omen. This may not be predictive, but it's worrying.

I'd think that with 11 million Somalis in one place all contributing there must be a huge amount of British culture in Somalia.

Yeh it is kind of understandable why some people vote for Trump.

I'm really hoping that he's just doing this all for his own ego/profile (and never really thought he'd get this far), and if he does get in, he'll immediately wise up, chuck the ridiculous policies that gained him support, and actually knuckle down and just become a boring Rep. President.

Yeah seriously, one meager arrow from Poland, that's all. Whiny little bitches.

Why did no one go to France? Them immigrants don't seem to appreciate good food and wine? Anyway, more for me then.

TBH I was joining in the thread narrative that we can judge the success or failure of leaving the EU based on 1 month of post-Brexit data.

is that all you people can say, racist racist racist

any argument you don't like

racist racist racist

are you upper middle class?

I can't remember the last time I talked race with anybody around me

then go to 2p2 politics and thats all the rage, this is racist that is racist, is it possible to have a discussion without racist being the primary way you try to win arguments