In general, I support the idea of breaking up political institutions and keeping power as localized as possible. But in this case it seems the Brits have a pretty sweet deal, no? Aren't they the only EU country that's been allowed to keep their own currency? I would think that in itself would cut off a ton of the Eurocrats' power over Britain. People in Brussels or wherever can talk ****, but they don't have any real financial leverage.

There won't be any campaigning for a few days now.

Witness Clarke Rothwell told the BBC Ten O'Clock News that the killer shouted either 'Britain First' or 'Put Britain first' at least twice. The killer appears to have subscribed to a far-right racist website. The BBC may have taken a few hours to consult lawyers and make sure all this was OK to air in view of sub judice and electoral rules.

I don't think anyone would deny that the knife attack on Stephen Timms MP in 2010, supposedly to avenge the Iraq war, was politically motivated. (Happily he survived.) Just because they're cranks, it doesn't mean they're not politically motivated.

[QUOTE=Adebisi;50239889]In general, I support the idea of breaking up political institutions and keeping power as localized as possible. But in this case it seems the Brits have a pretty sweet deal, no? Aren't they the only EU country that's been allowed to keep their own currency?

The following (AFAIK) don't use the euro.
Bulgaria.
Croatia.
Czech Republic.
Denmark.
Hungary.
Poland.
Romania.
Sweden.

From a long way away, it seems the Brits have a pretty good deal - but I freely admit I have only a shallow understanding of the issues.

MM MD

Spot on mate. Just as this guys life long dream was about to be realised, just as it finally looked like the UK was going to leave the EU and he was finally going to get what he wanted, he decided now was the time to shoot somebody for wanting to keep us in.

The depths to which the Remain camp will stoop really are unimaginable.

its more like this. it is telling everybody that if the right wing does not get its way now. it is ready to use violence

Wow, I didn't realize that many EU countries had their own currency. I thought one of the main points of the EU was centralized monetary policy. I bet Greece is kicking itself for not keeping the Drachma.

[QUOTE=hobbes9324;50240584] don´t having the € and control their currency it´s very good...
wish we could have that.

the issues... immigration and xenophobia.
other stuff it´s just dust.

yeah it does look really strange to me, leave up 10+ points and then this happens

don't want to be a conspiracy nut but its really weird

such ****ed up news, really hope you guys don't let the assassination decide the election. for some reason I think that's much less likely in the UK than in the US.

edit: WOW had no idea it was an 'out'er, just assumed ISIS and the risk was an anti-immigrant anti-EU backlash.

Adopting the Euro is not a requirement for joining the EU. The UK chose to keep the pound back when the Euro was introduced in 1995 and it was a great decision. The UK therefore does indeed have the best of both worlds, especially as it negotiated an opt-out from contributing to any Eurozone bailout fund. So when the **** hit the fan with Greece, Britain was able to stay out of it.

I think it is a requirement now and has been for a while. But you still need to hit certain metrics first which is why the likes of Poland doesn't use the Euro.

But otherwise i absolutely agree. We pay a relatively small amount to access the single market and everything about having the court of human rights is a bonus. Laws from the eu are pretty irrelevant, its not like a federal system where they have direct legislative power over us.

I mean there is always room for reform but on balance we won't get any situation better than we currently have by leaving.

Phill is right. If Britain leaves, the likeliest outcome is that the big drop in GDP caused by companies having to pay tariffs will cause another recession (on top of the existing one), Brits will start whining about tax rises and the state of the NHS and other public services, and the UK will go grovelling back to rejoin the EU, which would probably be on far less favourable terms than now (eg no rebate) with all that that entails regarding loss of standing in the international community.

In that scenario the EU sounds more like the mafia than anything. In a different era that sort of international economic blackmail was sometimes seen as an act of war.

The fact a supposedly sovereign nation has to cower in fear of what the EU may do to them should be proof enough things like the EU is bad news.

I think its just that being in the EU is good, therefore the predictions are "things will be less good outside of the EU".

That's the way of the world. Sovereign nations across the globe cower in fear of what the USA might do to them. Does that make the USA bad news and sound like the mafia?

Stand corrected. Britain and Denmark may have negotiated opt-outs but don't know how much scope there is for other countries to do the same. Imagine it's not easy to do so, although the EU really should soften its position on mandatory adoption of the Euro considering the Greek mess.

i think people are overestimating the negative economic consequences. it'll probably be something like a couple of percent of gdp over the long term. that's bad, but not armageddon bad. it would be less if the uk could just join the eea but continued free movement seems like it would make the leavers right.

How is the EU blackmailing the UK?

The UK joined a club and agreed to the negotiated terms. It arguably already had the best terms of anyone in that club, but it still tried to re-negotiate for even better conditions by threatening to leave, essentially blackmailing the EU with the potentially catastrophic consequences. After not getting its way the UK may now decide to actually take the ball home and leave, losing all the benefits of being in the club and risking economic chaos for everyone involved.

If people in the UK really prefer to be out, that's their decision and it obviously has to be respected. But it doesn't oblige the EU to roll over in the aftermath. New terms of cooperation will have to be negotiated and the UK would have considerably less leverage this time, so I doubt it will get a similarly favorable deal again.

A couple of % of GDP is massive.

Also whilst in a vacuum the effect might be X its going to be leveraged up the wazooo by the ultra fragile state of the financial system.

Not sure if you're a troll or serious, so I'll assume the latter just in case. You haven't understood what I've said. He was getting his way. For the first time it looked as though his side of the argument was winning. Your logic doesn't add up.

Yeah just to be clear I wasn't saying it as a conspiracy theory. I was merely saying to the people that think this is a Brexit politically motivated attack that it makes no sense. Had this been a week from today, the referendum showed that people wanted to stay, and then he went out and shot his MP who was for remaining, I would agree that it looks politically motivated. To attribute this to a campaign that is finally winning the argument in all of the polls, a week before the vote is out, is misguided at best.

odds for leave have never gotten above 50 percent

Lol, no one is suggesting it was a carefully planned political attack made after a rational balancing of the pro/cons of shooting an MP.

Instead the accusation is how emotional, irrational and hysterical the out camp is of which this is an extreme example.

The paucity of reasoning on the Leave side itt pretty much matches that in the outside world in my recent experience of numerous conversations at and after work.

The smart, reasonable and broad-minded le are overwhelmingly in favour of staying and most others want out.

It's scary that there's possibly a majority of the latter in the UK.

Suggesting that the offender - who has a lengthy history of treatment for mental illness dating back years before Brexit was even an issue - is even an "extreme example" of the "out camp" is both false and offensive.

Jo Cox was represented the best of UK, and attempting to politicise her death is the worst.

I dont think it is even remotely close to false and pointing it out is not politicising her death, it is attempting to explain it.

The OUT camp is heavily nationalistic, dont think anyone can debate that.

Nationalism is all about the irrational emotional symbolism.