People see lots of Polish and brown people and blame them for their own problems. Logic doesn't really come into it as far as I can tell. The fact that there is a strong positive correlation between amount of money received from the EU and voting to leave the EU would seem to support this.

"England will have a special relationship when fighting the WW3, the missiles of the US don't have to travel far across the Atlantic". Surely the "liberated" UK will have a special status in Trump's mind too...

How dare you?

you cant just ignore the referendum imo. people here are right that it would be too dark. a new referendum on a finished deal could maybe be legitimate, but if the leavers lose there would be decades of anger.

i think eea membership would be great but it would also be grievance machine that would fuel ukip after they rename themselves the english freedom party.

settling for a good, normal trade deal with hopefully close cooperation on a number of issues would suck compared to status quo, but it wouldnt be the end of the world either. it probably doesnt make people any less angry when they find out that it hasnt really improved anything for them tho.

Cameron answering questions live now. Missed the statement.

How about delaying article 50 triggering forever, keeping the (British) union together?

Leaving the EU is just not a realistic option.

hordes

with bad haircuts

Updates for people who get angry watching politics

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120

Ha ha, wp, this is just so good. Player of the century!

Will not take long before England wants a piece of the cake too (reversing Brexit)

He is good writer and well informed, but in his article he mentions none of the things you do. The contradiction is clear, EU is too neoliberal, so Boris wants to leave to:

Make the UK more neo liberal.

I never said the EU did not have neo liberal elements and agenda's they just were counter balanced more by other elements and as such on whole the EU was to pinko commie for right wing tories. This does not have to be very pinko commie.

I cant think of anything less neo liberal than co-determination and Germany is still the major player in the EU.

The SNP would never undertake to stay in the UK even with that condition and nor should they.

They don't want independence because of the 60-40 vote in their country to remain in the EU, they want independence anyway for broadly the same reasons England wants independence from the EU.

The only difference is that project fear works on them, as evidenced by the No and Remain votes from Scotland, whereas it doesn't work on us.

I think diplomacy would fix it. If SNP knows it's just about some theater before all of the UK embraces the EU I think they'll take it, their break-free referendum is not very far in the past, and valid if all of the UK Remains. Sometimes the little brother dominates the big, especially if the latter needs a spanking.

I believe it's now known as Project Reality...

To brave for project fear is perhaps the dumbest things I have heard.

No surprises about the source.

From Vox pops with HORDES its obvious most of them dont get that leaving the EU is not a simple binary yes/no proposition and that we are leaving the EU along a linear line of possible relationships.

Oh, you mean they'll undertake not to leave the UK for at least 10 years or something?

I don't really see that as an important political goal. I'd rather just get it over with.

I was only refering to Oafk's post about his friends who seemed to think that the EU was preventing the UK from being a protectionnist leftopia. It's very much the other way around. I dont know of other left wing cases for Brexit that might or might not exist.

It's better to protract than let the UK kill itself. You have to choose. In politics it's usually about the least bad option.

Every day the UK is not leaving the EU is a feast. Try to look at it that way. Then you'll hopefully enjoy the times ahead.

everyday. and in the end someone will win an election on the promise to enforce it and the ones who didnt will look discredited.

but unless you can give any reassurences to the rest of the eu i dont think it's possible either. do you expect them to just sit around waiting for it to happen? it'll be hard to let england influence decisions when you dont know if they're still there two years from now.

I think Merkel will tell people to listen to the British MEPs, so they will still feel welcome in the EU. Think MEPs get that well paid they will continue to sit in the parliament, and be under the influence. What do you think?

Various ways to do it, but only one, the Norway EEA option, allows continued access to the single market in services as well as goods, and that requires free movement of labour. It's exactly like being in the EU, but with no rebate and no say in EU law, which you just have to follow anyway. Services make up 80% of the British economy, so the Swiss, Canadian, Turkish or WTO model wouldn't work.

The Johnson scenario, in which nothing changes except that we get rid of those pesky EU human-rights laws that he and Gove are opposed to, isn't remotely possible. And even Johnson suggests that free movement of labour would have to continue.

Norway is a dot compared to the UK. Nobody really cares what they are up to, as long as they are loyal to NATO with their coastline. UK can't play in that league, there is just more responsibility for Europe and the world as a whole. Norway is a thousandth of the world population while the UK is one percent, and one tenth of Europe. That's significant, stop acting childish.

Since you see globalization as a good in totality and the advent of a tightly intergrated European Federal State as a good thing rather than a folly there would be no good arguements for leave.

Many in Britain and the world have different perspectives on this tho

Good point. I fear nationalism the most. Must be one of the most stupid inventions of all time. ****, it sounded that good, like communism once did.

I scanned the UK press for this Monday - Ripping good stuff across the board. Shadow hordes, gnashing of teeth, resignations galore, roller coasters jumping skyward, and the emergency meeting of the EU economic aristocracy with the wondrous witch Merkel showing her best Nazi scowl with Article 50 looming on the horizon. Others are trying a more reasoned calming approach but when has that worked well recently? Boris Johnson is licking his lips. Others are positioning themselves to either bend over for queen and country or unzipping their pants in anticipation of some excellent crumpet.

And then there is Jeremy Corbyn. Should not that Jackass just shoot himself and get it over with.

In other unrelated news, so it seems, Spain is in political chaos and the recent election did not resolve anything so far. The Mad Greeks are still mad. Italy and France are mired down, and throughout Europe the young are screwed and the unemployment rate of those less than 25 is monstrous in many countries. Fascism is on the rise. Monsters beckon and lurk from every dark alley and backwater hovel. A foul skink is in the air. And Putin is still on the lose. The timetable for my bunker is right on schedule.

And last but not least; why no Tits on the first page of the leading rags of the UK? Must they now be buried in the back pages amongst the personal ads? I suspect a sneaky moralistic neo-liberal plot.