Brexit Referendum - Page 104 - Politics and Economics

Because nobody wants to do it. And Art.50 is only triggered by a constitutionally binding procedure in the member state, and in the United Kingdom a referendum is not constitutionally binding.

...and the reason no one wants to be the person who triggers Article 50 is not because any of them think it's going to be good for the UK.

Which should tell people all they need to know about the Out result.

06-26-2016 , 04:26 PM

#2577

Habsfan09

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,552

Lol Anna Firth just admitted in German TV that they have no idea how article 50 works. She thinks they will be negotiating first before article 50 gets invoked.

06-26-2016 , 04:29 PM

#2578

Csaba

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,131

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostOstrich

He expected to lose, but knew that being the face of the Leave campaign and being seen as tough on Europe would be a sure-fire vote winner when he inevitably competed for the Tory leadership. Winning the vote has knackered it all up for him, especially with Cameron coming straight out and declaring that he won't press the article 50 self-destruct button himself.

I think a large part of it was boosting his profile (as if it needed boosting) and positioning himself to have a good shot at being party leader/PM. I don't get why he did such a good job of campainging if he wanted to lose. I think that Johnson was the difference between the two campaigns. If he had sided with Remain they would have won. I suppose he had to be seen to give it his all to ensure that he was taken seriously.

06-26-2016 , 04:31 PM

#2579

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,798

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

Wonder what % of Leave voters understand the article 50 issue?

1 or 2?

I guess it's a similar % to those that had even heard of it 48 hours ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Which should tell people all they need to know about the Out result.

......which comes back to why a self-employed plumber in Doncaster gives a toss either way.

06-26-2016 , 04:34 PM

#2580

jalfrezi

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The other front runners for party leader (Osborne, May) were on the Remain side, so being on the other side also allowed him to grab more headlines and attention as he travelled around the country. I think he genuinely thought (and wanted) Remain would win by a few percentage points - the bookies and markets certainly thought so.

06-26-2016 , 04:36 PM

#2581

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

......which comes back to why a self-employed plumber in Doncaster gives a toss either way.

Plumbers are in more demand in a buoyant economy where houses are being built, offices are being refurbished and the housing market is active.

06-26-2016 , 04:38 PM

#2582

Csaba

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,131

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Plumbers are in more demand in a buoyant economy where houses are being built, offices are being refurbished and the housing market is active.

Conversely a lot of them seem to be pissed off with Eastern Europeans undercutting them.

06-26-2016 , 04:43 PM

#2583

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Csaba

Conversely a lot of them seem to be pissed off with Eastern Europeans undercutting them.

Probably they are, but you'll struggle to find many who sympathise with manual workers having to take a pay cut from £75/hr.

06-26-2016 , 04:44 PM

#2584

00001

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1,511

Quote:

Originally Posted by 57 On Red

Because nobody wants to do it. And Art.50 is only triggered by a constitutionally binding procedure in the member state, and in the United Kingdom a referendum is not constitutionally binding.

I know. Here it´s not binding too.
If no one wants to do it, was a big mistake make a referendum (without calculating the risks).
Kinda meh for the leave people if nothing happens...

06-26-2016 , 04:58 PM

#2585

Yakmelk

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Cameron and the remain campaign breaking massive promises about staying if he loses:
*crickets*

I can only hope Boris has the balls to ignore the results of the referendum and take this to the next level. And who gives a **** about manual workers or truck drivers anyway right jalfrezi ? We can only hope aggressive left organizations like the AFA can keep it together until actual decisions are made.

Last edited by Yakmelk; 06-26-2016 at 04:59 PM. Reason: European spring coming up

06-26-2016 , 04:58 PM

#2586

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,798

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Probably they are, but you'll struggle to find many who sympathise with manual workers having to take a pay cut from £75/hr.

Which again comes back to them quite enjoying giving a bunch of bankers, whose annual bonus is more than their mortgage, a bloody nose by voting out.

06-26-2016 , 05:02 PM

#2587

domer2

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comrade corbyn refusing to give up his leadership role even as his entire cabinet revolts against him is pretty great

communism never ends pretty, kids

06-26-2016 , 05:04 PM

#2588

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

Which again comes back to them quite enjoying giving a bunch of bankers, whose annual bonus is more than their mortgage, a bloody nose by voting out.

I'm sure most of us would like to see a huge reduction in bankers' salaries and bonuses, but plumbers voting Out to spite bankers is turkeys voting for Christmas and I don't believe for a minute this happened.

Do you have any evidence of it?

06-26-2016 , 05:10 PM

#2589

Yakmelk

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They vote out because they are being undercut, just like several others types of jobs are. The fact that they can cause some financial harm to the banker types seems nothing more than a bonus if anything.

06-26-2016 , 05:14 PM

#2590

diebitter

Grotesquely Handsome

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 65,711

Quote:

Originally Posted by domer2

comrade corbyn refusing to give up his leadership role even as his entire cabinet revolts against him is pretty great

communism never ends pretty, kids

06-26-2016 , 05:18 PM

#2591

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakmelk

Funny how the Right supports protectionism for self-employed manual workers earning a fortune (£75/hr is up to £150,000 p.a. and is taxable at a low rate), but not for train drivers on less than 1/3 of their salary.

06-26-2016 , 05:18 PM

#2592

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,798

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

I think it's symbolic of the north/south divide, but to answer your question, no, I haven't spoken to any plumbers from Doncaster in the last 48 hours who voted leave

06-26-2016 , 05:20 PM

#2593

cilldroichid

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 289

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Probably they are, but you'll struggle to find many who sympathise with manual workers having to take a pay cut from £75/hr.

I'm in the wrong Country it seems. Out of curiosity where did you get the figure of 75/hr for manual work.

Last edited by cilldroichid; 06-26-2016 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Self employed or otherwise

06-26-2016 , 05:25 PM

#2594

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cilldroichid

I'm in the wrong Country it seems. Out of curiosity where did you get the figure of 75/hr for manual work.

...and I'm in the wrong trade.

It's a pretty standard rate for a plumber in London. If you're not careful you might also have to pay a call-out fee.

But let's not moan about the self-employed. Let's moan about train drivers instead because they have a union.

06-26-2016 , 05:29 PM

#2595

LektorAJ

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This is pretty balanced from Professor Alexander Betts, Migration Professor at University of Oxford and a Bremainer.

Quote:

Looking at the Brexit voting map, it occurred to me that I have spent a really small proportion of my life in blue areas of the map. I've spent a combined total of 4 days in the top 50 Leave voting areas (and exclusively to watch football). Although I was an undergrad in Durham, the university is itself a relatively pro-Remain bubble.
It also occurred to me that a huge proportion of the shocked Remainers (and I'm in that category) perhaps don't know this country all that well. I had never heard of Fenland, Bolsover, Tendring, South Holland, Castle Point.
The global outward-looking elite in Europe has systematically left people behind, it has failed to find a narrative that explains globalisation and mobility in ways that people who haven't travelled much, been to university, or grown up with the internet can understand. Yes, we believe they are positive forces but have we found an effective way to explain that to a broader audience?
The entire liberal political elite in the UK shares varying degrees of responsibility for that failure. Outside Scotland, the only politicians who have found a narrative that resonates are populist nationalists. If anything positive is to come out of this, it has to be based on a recognition that this was not sudden; it was systematic and structural - and the failure is a shared responsibility (calling the referendum was risky but incidental to the underlying division and alienation in the country - which was the PM's and our political elite's real failing).
If we don't get that - and understand it quickly - we will end up with a sad Little England (and other parts of Europe may follow). But that's not inevitable. If we do learn from this, and the shock of Brexit teaches liberal elites that they (we) cannot live and speak just 'for the 48%' then those of us aghast at the prospect of Johnson, Gove et al shaping this country's future might be able to offer a better - and more inclusive - vision.

06-26-2016 , 05:35 PM

#2596

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

I live in Cornwall so cant relate.

06-26-2016 , 05:38 PM

#2597

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

I live in Cornwall so cant relate.

Were you aware of the £1Bn EU money that went to Cornwall before it hit the newspapers pre-referendum?

06-26-2016 , 05:38 PM

#2598

Yakmelk

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Your 75 is far from correct for where I'm from but I won't dispute it for the UK because I dgaf however as someone else asked, I'm now also interested in your source. I have little to nothing to do with the Right, I'm politically situated much more on the left side of the spectrum instead of the right.

06-26-2016 , 05:40 PM

#2599

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Were you aware of the £1Bn EU money that went to Cornwall before it hit the newspapers pre-referendum?

Sick burn.

06-26-2016 , 05:44 PM

#2600

LektorAJ

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Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7,826

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Were you aware of the £1Bn EU money that went to Cornwall before it hit the newspapers pre-referendum?

Presumably. If you get an EU grant you have to spend 1% of it marketing the fact that it was the EU that gave it to you - something which I find extraordinary as a requirement from a public body.

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