Brexit Referendum - Page 514 - Politics and Economics

Isn't it better to have expert committees rather than a chamber for that? Then relevant experts can be drafted in as needed

I don't really see how we can have, for example, scientific experts in an upper chamber and not allow them to ask the commons to think again if they consider some legislation as very bad for science.

12-11-2018 , 10:23 AM

#12827

SootedPowa

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,332

Corbyn smashing it in the emergency debate.

Seems pointless though as what is going to actually come out of it?

Apparently May told EU leaders 24 hours before it was pulled that the vote would be pulled - well before she informed parliament. Pretty much in contempt for a second time imo.

12-11-2018 , 01:11 PM

#12828

SootedPowa

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,332

12-11-2018 , 01:40 PM

#12829

BOIDS

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 13,832

lets have a house of fatblokes, populated by fellas from the pubs of britain

12-11-2018 , 01:51 PM

#12830

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,879

hear, hear

I'll stand for the Hoppy party.

12-11-2018 , 01:54 PM

#12831

smacc25

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,969

Incident at parliament....

12-11-2018 , 02:42 PM

#12832

medgar

adept

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 857

12-11-2018 , 02:43 PM

#12833

Husker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,886

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOIDS

lets have a house of fatblokes, populated by fellas from the pubs of britain

Wouldn't that just be like this thread?

12-11-2018 , 03:06 PM

#12834

SootedPowa

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,332

12-11-2018 , 03:53 PM

#12835

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,879

Quote:

Originally Posted by Husker

Wouldn't that just be like this thread?

He may have been making that point.

The sad thing is that if a lot of us got totally pissed and made drunken voting decisions based on what amused us most then we probably wouldn't do a worse job.

12-11-2018 , 04:03 PM

#12836

Dutch101

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,987

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Wrong.

The UK got most of its special treatment in the EU by threatening to leave. Do you really think the EU is not going to use that against them if they end up cancelling article 50? Holland lost their discount last budget round because everyone knows Dutch politicians will never attempt to leave the EU.

12-11-2018 , 04:20 PM

#12837

BOIDS

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Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 13,832

if we end up staying in then one negotiating advantage of all this nonsense is that any threat of brexit will be very very believable until forever

12-11-2018 , 04:30 PM

#12838

57 On Red

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 5,765

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

The only direction of travel for the EU is ever closer union. They could quell the rise of far-right populism across Europe by changing Freedom of Movement to Freedom of Movement for Labour. How many people would object to this, aside from the most ardent Europhiles?

For goodness' sake. Freedom of movement for labour is the actual legal principle enshrined in the Single Market. You only get three months' grace before you have to show you are employed or self-supporting. The UK government, unlike most other EU governments, has chosen not to implement this rule. Nothing to do with the EU.

12-11-2018 , 04:35 PM

#12839

57 On Red

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 5,765

Quote:

Originally Posted by medgar

The Irish do know their place. It's in the EU. Which gives them massively more power. A power that the Kremlin, and US disaster-capitalists, and racist ****wits, want the UK to give up, for reasons which will not only not benefit the UK, but will fatally weaken the UK, and drastically reduce the life expectancy of everyone living here except the faction of the 1% who have colluded in this whole omnishambles.

Last edited by 57 On Red; 12-11-2018 at 05:01 PM.

12-11-2018 , 04:41 PM

#12840

Husker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,886

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

He may have been making that point.

The sad thing is that if a lot of us got totally pissed and made drunken voting decisions based on what amused us most then we probably wouldn't do a worse job.

I'll need to pour a Dunkel and ponder it

12-11-2018 , 04:43 PM

#12841

57 On Red

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 5,765

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch101

I can really see the next EU budget negotiations if the UK decides to cancel article 50.
UK: We would like to keep our discount.
EU: Lol no. Leave if you don't like that.

No. The decision of the Grand Chamber of the CJEU is that revocation of Art.50 will maintain the sovereign state's EU membership on the existing terms, which, in the UK's case, includes the rebate. Have you not read the ruling, or even the foregoing thread in which this was pointed out?

This is the trouble with the internet. It's just a complete Carnival of the Idiots.

12-11-2018 , 04:48 PM

#12842

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,879

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch101

It's not how thatcher got the rebate and I don't recall it ever being used apart from Cameron's pathetic attempt.

Mostly the UK got it's way (with some compromises) by using it's considerable power within the EU.

12-11-2018 , 04:49 PM

#12843

SootedPowa

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,332

Brady has requested a meeting with May tomorrow after PMQ's. Surely ffs.

12-11-2018 , 04:52 PM

#12844

jalfrezi

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 12,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOIDS

if we end up staying in then one negotiating advantage of all this nonsense is that any threat of brexit will be very very believable until forever

The corollary of that is that having prepared itself for that eventuality, the EU won't be too nonplussed.

12-11-2018 , 04:55 PM

#12845

57 On Red

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 5,765

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

It's a derail but some sort of second chamber is needed to prevent bad law from entering the statute book. It's not always about policy but often about consistency and avoiding conflict with existing laws.

I'm not in favour of a fully elected second chamber because I think the numbers of Tory and Labour peers should be roughly in balance, but I hate how it's been gamed by PMs over the years by stuffing it full of benefactors and the obsequious in return for favours.

But, once they're in, they owe nothing to anybody, they can cross the floor, they can do what they like. A second chamber elected on the same cycle and the same huckster vote-grabbing basis as the first is pointless and just locks in the tyranny of the executive. A second chamber elected on a slightly delayed cycle, like the US Senate, obviously doesn't work all that well either. There is no accepted way to run a second chamber and the Lords, since about 1911, have formed a mild brake on the executive, and a brake on the executive is what you need.

12-11-2018 , 04:56 PM

#12846

jalfrezi

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 12,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by 57 On Red

No, he clearly didn't.

I particularly love how people turn up after some time away from this thread and then tell everyone exactly what the situation is despite being completely clueless.

And then there was bitter's recent classic "I wonder if there's a court case to take HMG to court for not delivering the result of the 2016 referendum?"

12-11-2018 , 05:02 PM

#12847

jalfrezi

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 12,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by 57 On Red

Yes it is what's needed. That conversation was mainly about the background and numbers of nominees to the second chamber, not an argument in favour of electing them - that would be a very bad idea.

12-11-2018 , 05:20 PM

#12848

jalfrezi

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 12,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by SootedPowa

Brady has requested a meeting with May tomorrow after PMQ's. Surely ffs.

That's from the Daily Star?

12-11-2018 , 05:26 PM

#12849

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,879

Quote:

Robert Peston
‏
Verified account

@Peston
1h1 hour ago
More
I said on @itvnews that predicting when @theresa_may goes is mug’s game. But someone I actually trust in all this tells me the 48 letters threshold for no-confidence vote In her by Tory MPs has been passed. Might be wrong. And I might be a prize mug. But thought I should mention

https://twitter.com/peston

and

Quote:

Laura Kuenssberg
‏
Verified account

@bbclaurak
49m49 minutes ago
More
Hearing that SirGraham Brady has asked to see the PM after #pmqs tmrw, and multiple sources, including senior tories and a cabinet minister, telling us tonight they believe the threshold of 48 letters has been reached - v unlikely to be any confirmation until tomorrow

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak?lang=en

12-11-2018 , 05:34 PM

#12850

jalfrezi

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 12,352

Oh well, she's history and the strategy of doing as little as possible until the very end didn't work out after all. It would be funny to see her win the vote of confidence though due to the saner backbench MPs being terrified of the front runners.

Betfair has Raab, Johnston, Javid, Gove and Hunt as market leaders to replace the stalemated Maybot with a gap to the field.

The usual advice in normal times is to find the compromise candidate but these are far from normal times. Nevertheless I think the oleaginous, unctuous Hunt is probably decent value at 10.0, though the market lacks liquidity at the moment.

Last edited by jalfrezi; 12-11-2018 at 05:41 PM.

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