I agree

I think it should be

brexit

Or

Full commitment to EU including ASAP adoption of Schengen and the euro

Let remainers and leavers really know what they're voting for.

I'd like both of those but it's not on the table and not what we're voting for.

I don't believe a second referendum is likely any time soon. May is unlikely to call for another mandate, either an election/referendum, having already called for one and failed. It looks likely that she will be replaced with a leader to her right as that is where the Conservative base is at present and I doubt they will stand for 2 successive leaders parachuted in with no vote from party members. Plus the increasingly likely new centrist formation will pull remainers away from the tories.
It isn't in remainers best interests in any case as a bolstered leave vote is basically guaranteed with the addition of the EU playing hardball increasing hostility to them, on top of all the arguments for and against which have been done to death already. There is also the possibility of an increased turnout, in the favour of leave.
The best possibility of remaining in the EU is to rely on the status quo as it plays out, undemocratic as it is. The EU will not agree to brexit, they must punish the UK and not set a precedent, and since no deal won't happen under this govt there will be an extension to the process. There is no onus on the govt to take proper heed of the referendum result except opportunist populism which is ultimately a much weaker force than the gravity of remaining in the EU. With that said, beware of a disenfranchised radical far right alignment becoming an inevitable outcome of continued EU membership.

Have you thought of your answer yet?

Not necessarily if the current deal restricts import partners.

I mean, it's possible that by leaving the biggest trade union on the planet and relinquishing its political influence within the European community the UK will immediately be able to strike a series of hugely positive trade deals that were previously unattainable because of the restriction of teaming up with the likes of Germany and France. But I'd suggest it's at least equally likely that the UK will end up begging for scraps from the tables of the likes of the US and China, its economy will disappear up its own arse, the welfare state will quickly become unsustainable and the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg will hoover up the scraps as the bottom 99.9% starve to death. But hey, at least we'll have the freedom to negotiate our own trade deals and we'll no longer be beholden to the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels. And there will be fewer Poles, Romanians, Hungarians and ******s.

If the under 25's can be bothered to turn up and vote, Brexit is dead.

So you think this all hinges on 'immediately' having deals?

This is the long game. Retain nationhood or become a district of the USE is the simple long game choice.

I remain surprised that so many remainers do not appreciate this - which is why, if there's another referendum, this is the choice they should be making. They could do with a dose of reality.

If the majority vote for being a district of USE, I'll be a good democrat and go with it. It's the sheer underhandedness of the power-leaching of the EU project that I loathe so much. Honesty I can abide.

The reason I do not appreciate that (as a Remainer) is because I'm not into paranoid fan fiction involving a complete dissolution of the nation state.

Would you deny there has been piecemeal dissolution?

Would you rejoin EU if terms were taking the euro and accepting Schengen? If not, why not? (if you avoid answering he question, I will understand why, it's a difficult one)

Do you think the level of integration the EU has achieved is the end of the process, or just part of the long term journey to more integration?

If the choices were to leave the EU or rejoin with your caveats, then I would choose rejoining every day of every week, etc.

schengen is good too. but nobody is forced into either

Go back and try reading the thread, someone answered that question.

Also its a strange type of rebuff or debating point, thing that is actually in existence and easily checkable in 1sec on google, must not exist because I have not been given an adequate response about it on 2+2.

Typical of the mangled cognitive dissonance that is your calling card.

Could

And if you're talking about a hypothetical rerun (redoing referenda until you get the result the EU wants seems like standard practice), what makes you think that this'll happen?

This will

1: he wasn't correcting your grammar, he was pointing out that the vote has already happened.

2: This'll is a legitimate contraction of this will (at least in an informal environment such as this), so your correction of his grammar is a fail anyway.

I don't get the aversion to redoing referenda. It seems that's a thing that should happen regularly in a democracy, just like voting for MPs.

Agree. Referenda about any process that has signed away national democratic powers should be as regular as general elections imo.

The problem is the referenda involving the EU are used as a gating mechanism to move control towards the greater centralisation of EU powers - once you vote in, there's rarely any referenda to vote out again.

The people of Europe aren't stupid, it's a standing joke about how controlling the EU are, that they can be the root cause of referendums being run over and over till the results suit the EU.

It's the power to call a referendum that can be abused. If it's automatic, conventional or regular then it's fine.

While I'm uncomfortable with the notion of 'asking again because we don't like the last answer', this is a bit different because
a) our government is trying for a compromise that ~no-one wants
b) it's so important that it's reasonable to check if a significant number of people have changed their minds.

Hopefully we will also have leaned for the future that referendum need to produce a much clearer result. Both in the margin of victory required for seismic change, and on what the ****ing question means

The trend is clearly going one way though. Before last year's general election it was near impossible to find a reliable poll indicating a remain preference. That is no longer the case. There's some obfuscation because the question is never quite the same, but polling is indicating a noticeable shift in attitude amongst the electorate as it becomes clearer that Brexiteer promises on how negotiations would pan out are exposed for folly.

This is now becoming an issue of time, more than argument. We will inevitably* reach a point where polling solidly indicates a significant cross sectional majority for remain / noBrexit in some form. What is unlikely is that we will reach it quick enough for MPs to feel confident in beating the drum for another vote against the wishes of their leaders. Brexiteers are where they need to be, no deal achieves their aims and they simply need to retain the current status quo and path through to March of next year and time expires.

*I say inevitably because I don't see any significant shift in the tenor of negotiations, economic forecasting or performance of the pound between now and March. As those trends go, so will the changing preferences of the non core Brexiteer electorate. That and deaths of older voters every month which weaken the Brexiteer base of the electorate. Brexiteers complain that the negotiations prove the EU as the big bad vindictive wolves they painted them as before the referendum; but the middle part of the electorate don't care. They'll just see the major facts and rationally move away from Leave as something they support.

Leo Varadkar and Simon Coveney may not be at the table, but their positions and those of the Irish electorate have been robustly represented at the table at all times throughout the Brexit negotiations. Given Brexiteers never seemed to consider the implications of the GFA or the Irish border before the referendum or triggering of article 50, the fact that they have been such a pain in the hole for JRM / Johnson et al speaks to the extent to which Irish interests have formed part of the conversation.

And, rather ironically, Brexit is proving the biggest threat to the UK since World War II. Scotland and Northern Ireland will most likely be lost in the event of a No Deal Brexit and the concept of the Union being beneficial for all has been exposed throughout the entire process, as it becomes clearer than ever that the desires of England and Wales drive what happens to people in Scotland and Northern Ireland, their democratic wishes be damned.

Surely that's secondary to doing what's best for your country.

Brexit is a ****ed up mess already, I don't really want to experience the coming consequences.

Why bother?

The dishonest ****er knows the Irish interests are being represented.

Of course it hasn’t. Racists will forever be racists. Enjoy your hellscape db. I’m assuming you don’t own property, that’s my only concern now that demand will shrink, so i guess good effort you’ve lost me like 100k on that front. On the plus side I’m not a weird racist moron so that’s good. I really really hope you don’t have kids. If so, congrats on making their world far more troubled than it was before you.

"Could" only works with "would have been dead" hence the ambiguity, so the failure is yours my friend (and you're not right about "this'll").