No, our relative positions on that debate are completely unknown, because we have not been debating it.

So sorry no progress has been made on your blatant attempt to back track.

There is a difference between common law systems and legislative systems, some experts say this is linked to mainland EU's problems with innovation.

LOL you're terrified to state a position. Why?

Because you haven’t given us anything to argue against except potential future power grabs(by whom?) and the idea that we’ve completely surrendered our sovereignty(how so?), which makes it impossible to expand on our position other than to say you’re wrong. If you have some clear ideas about how the EU is encroaching upon our sovereignty then let’s hear them. Just stating that they are is not useful.

Um, no, swing and miss again.

Im just pointing out that what chezfarage is talking about has nothing to do with the posts that proceed it, so if he suddenly wants to go on a massive tangent goal post shift, he cant be aware of my position in relation to said shift.

So yea, your mangled attempt at technical phrasing shows you have no remotely clue what you are talking about.

You think the USA does not have legislative regulation? Wat?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44266857

Not news to those tuned in mind.

We can't clarify them, we don't know what they are.

Everything the same but no bloody immigrants!

Except the good ones who pick our fruit and work in our nhs and the ones who came over ages ago and haven't been dehumanised by the press. Only the evil scheming immigrants from nigel farages fevered and diseased mind.

I’m prepared to accept that he’s not a racist, necessarily. At least in his own mind. I understand the desire to blame people when life isn’t panning out how you expected it to; it’s far easier to cite external forces than it is to adjust and to improve in order to succeed within an ever changing world. We’ve seen it in the MAGA movement, and we’ve seen it in the Brexit movement. These people are pissed off that the success they assumed is not a given, and this is the result. It’s bitterness, leading to xenophobia, aiming at easy targets and utterly exploited by those in power. This is the easy way out for them.

The sad thing is that when both movements still don’t provide them with the success and prosperity they feel they deserve, they will find some new as yet undefined external force to blame. All the while the same people championing their cause will continue to exploit them for profit and personal gain, to the detriment of the rest of us. It’s a problem that I really don’t see a solution to.

these lists are probably not perfect but http://nordic.businessinsider.com/th...n-the-world--/

it's always strange how the english pretend to be something other than a pretty average european country

Um no, we don't pretend that, or certainly no more than the French, Germans, Spanish or Italians etc do.

You're probably mistaking a small but highly vocal minority for a representative sample.

Fear of taking on the Murdoch press is the old time source of the general reluctance to make the pro-EU political case. It resulted in the inability of the remain campaign to make any positive political argument for the EU during the referendum campaign.

*British.

And we may not be world leaders in a lot of fields but EU collaboration was such a good thing for science in general. My mum spent 40 years working as a research scientist for a government research institute and it’s a tragedy that these projects will come to an end.

They worked on so many different aspects, and these are random examples of the projects I know she worked on but to give some idea: they worked together on things like digital visualisation of landscapes, eu subsidies for agriculture, social innovation in marginal areas, effects of urban lighting on ecosystems, the effect of climate change on certain crops and pests and sustainable crop production, use of certain crops eg potatoes to produce drugs to treat illnesses, berries to treat type 2 diabetes, cancer and neurodegenerative diseases. And that’s just agri research, there was obviously a lot going on in regards to other sciences that will fall by the wayside as well.

Pooling knowledge and technology is how we progress important issues, and there is no doubt that the funding for such projects will be greatly reduced post-Brexit. But hey at least fishermen will be able to overfish with impunity and we’ll be able to buy **** products from the US at cheaper prices. Cheaper being a misnomer of course because our relative cost of living will undoubtedly increase.

If it wasn’t clear I’m not directly responding to you daca, more the idea that the EU stifled innovation when the exact opposite is true.

Another hearty LOL at the "article" is that it completely neglects the story of how BT had an outrageous monopoly prior to EU regulation enabling such things at DSL unbundling, etc.

There isn't a shred of credibility in that "article" and it's best just left on the dung heap of history where it belongs.

The GDPR, by the way, perfectly illustrates the superiority of the EU's approach to regulation over that of the US where everything is sector specific.

and an example of how pooling sovereignty works and work well.

It's EU level legislation which all member countries control together and then having agreed it all together, it applies to all member countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera...ion_Regulation

@ diebitter. Would you really prefer that every country has it's own set of rules on things like this, scrutinised and enacted by it's own parliament?

Yes. to all laws. Cos if any law is inappropriate or unfit for purpose but gov't won't accept that, you can apply democratic process to get as addressed by changing that government (or at least have the threat of removing that government as leverage to change or address it)

Thats sovereignty.


How do laws thst dont suit one particular member state get removed or changed via democratic process in the EU framework?

The democratic framework is the European parliament and Council https://europa.eu/european-union/eu-.../procedures_en

It's democratic pressure on MEPs at EU level in the same was as we have democratic pressure on our MPs at national level. In addition there's democratic pressure through the council via the usual democratic pressure on our national government.

It's the UK's fault that we haven't been electing MEPs based on the sort of legislation we want, and instead chose to elect people like farage who just wanted out. (I'm sure I'm being unfair on some of our 73 MEP. I don't know who most of the are and some must have been doing normal parliamentary work.)

In the same way that laws that don't suit <insert any UK place or sector here> get changed via the democratic process in the UK framework. That's assuming full pooling of sovereignty which we're miles off from, and is bound to always include lots of devo type stuff (as we also have in the UK of course)

It does sound like there's literally no democratic mechanism for a nation state's citizenry to remove decision makers that disfavour that particular nation state. (ie they cannot remove them from their position at election time by voting for an alternative)

Would you say that's a correct statement?

If not, please explain the mechanism where vote at ballot box would allow citizenry to affect such change, I'm interested in hearing what it is.

We can elect different MEPs and we can elect a different national government. They are decision makers.

What no member state can do is remove them all - same as people from Yorkshire can replace Yorkshire MPs but cannot directly do anything about the rest.

But wait... what if every single UK MEP wanted the change the UK wanted and voted for it (and the government supported that change fully). Will that get the change through in all cases?

If not, then changing UK MEPs (and govt) would have somewhere between a significantly weakened to zero effect... so would remove (or at least greatly attenuate) link between democratic vote and enacted laws...

Would you agree that is true?

Db, the EU commission can only propose laws in areas where the UK parliament(and of course the other member states) has unanimously allowed them to do so.