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Brexit Referendum Brexit Referendum

06-28-2016 , 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi$terMJ
Not all go on benefits, but plenty ofcourse do because they need to eat and have a roof over their head.

As for the crime, its a. Common sense and b. Theres been plenty of studies.
People with money dont go rob stores etc
Why do you think theres more crimes in ghettos than in rich neighborhoods? One reason: poverty.
You should provide them. I study that on my masters in public law, itīs not so simple, but still.
So people receive money from the state there and still go rob stores, dont understand your reasoning.
Rich people commit other kind of crimes.
And so... housing itīs a right on UDHR and other stuff.
06-28-2016 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00001
You should provide them. I study that on my masters in public law, itīs not so simple, but still.
So people receive money from the state there and still go rob stores, dont understand your reasoning.
Rich people commit other kind of crimes.
And so... housing itīs a right on UDHR and other stuff.
Okay I should've said 'violent crimes'.

Benefits are ofcourse minimal and a nice holiday or watch isn't paid for them.
06-28-2016 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy
This is historically inaccurate. Every great empires in history, the UK one included, thrived on immigrant labor and incorporation of immigrants and their cultures. Indeed, every empire's capital, even today, was known to have cuisines from all over the world (even the parts they don't control.) Rome, China, Japan, UK, France, Greece, Ottoman Empire, Mongolian Empire, and every other empire (I am sure, it's a matter of numbers) had to rely on immigrant labor.

Xenophobia marked the end of many of those empires. Historically, great empires fall when they turn inward and stop learning from outsiders. Rome, China, and Japan are all examples of this. Rome got ****ed when it stopped assimilating border tribes. China got ****ed when it shut itself off and Europeans showed up with guns and cannons. Japan got ****ed the same way China did.
One thing is not like the others. The Mongolians did incorporate a lot "immigrant" labor by forcing them to fight in their army though - in the 12th and 13th century equivalent of cannon fodder.
06-28-2016 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Mi$terMJ,

Do you speak Thai?
Mi$terMJ - why won't you answer?

The irony of some Dutch kid in Thailand criticizing people for not assimilating and learning the language would be pretty sweet.

Thailand is also a very religious Buddhist country. 97% of Thai say it's important. It's one of the most religious countries in the world. Are you Buddhist? (like Thai Buddhist, not Western faux-Buddhist)

Also, it's essentially a military dictatorship, but maybe you have assimilated to that part.
06-28-2016 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi$terMJ
Okay I should've said 'violent crimes'.

Benefits are ofcourse minimal and a nice holiday or watch isn't paid for them.
Even without emigration that stuff will always happen. There always will be people that donīt want to work or study.
My point was to not generalize.
A emigrant if condemned of a crime itīs deported. Think thatīs what happen in all countries in the world.
06-28-2016 , 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thechef
Proximity
This.

Now you understand one of the reasons why the E. European countries - which have never had terrorist attacks btw - don't want to become multicultural and why Merkel's unilateral invitation made on behalf of others is so controversial.
06-28-2016 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy
This is historically inaccurate. Every great empires in history, the UK one included, thrived on immigrant labor and incorporation of immigrants and their cultures. Indeed, every empire's capital, even today, was known to have cuisines from all over the world (even the parts they don't control.) Rome, China, Japan, UK, France, Greece, Ottoman Empire, Mongolian Empire, and every other empire (I am sure, it's a matter of numbers) had to rely on immigrant labor.

Xenophobia marked the end of many of those empires. Historically, great empires fall when they turn inward and stop learning from outsiders. Rome, China, and Japan are all examples of this. Rome got ****ed when it stopped assimilating border tribes. China got ****ed when it shut itself off and Europeans showed up with guns and cannons. Japan got ****ed the same way China did.
This is such a misreading of history. Current levels of mass migration rarely happened. Mass migrations that did happen lead to displacement and replacement. Where are the Germans in the Carpathian basin, where are the Greeks in Anatolia. 1000 years ago it was the center of Western civilization.

500k a year is scary mass migration level stuff. If wanting to preserve your culture is xenophobia then sure. Empires are not good things for the people.

Also your Roman example is so simplistic and reductionist, Marion reforms anyone, expanding Roman military and citizenry to just the other Italian tribes as the direct reason of the fall of the Roman republic and rise of the Roman empire.
06-28-2016 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaaynde
UK needs some positive EU mentality and information for a change.
If only someone had thought of this revolutionary idea in the previous 13 months rather than scaremongering to the extent where the two euros I found down the back of my sofa yesterday would make me a sterling billionaire
06-28-2016 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00001
Even without emigration that stuff will always happen. There always will be people that donīt want to work or study.
My point was to not generalize.
A emigrant if condemned of a crime itīs deported. Think thatīs what happen in all countries in the world.
Basically nobody is deported in western europe, thats the problem. Theyre treated like local citizens.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
06-28-2016 , 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
California leads the country in agriculture which would be absolutely impossible without heavy immigration.

Also, entertainment industry in socal was created by immigrants.

Also, commercial real estate is largely being driven by immigrants now.

Most construction, including solar, is heavily reliant on immigration and not just labor, but for most of equipment and material distribution.

Restaurants employ 1.5M people and have about $60B in sales a year in California, so I wouldn't be so dismissive of pizza and pho.

Without a lot of immigration there's no way California is anywhere near as successful.
Do you think I'm hating on immigrants?! Think again. I'm hating on the peope / corporations that expoit the **** out of them/ cause a huge mess.

In terms of agriculture- farmers and big corporations would rather let crops rot in the fields than pay its citizens a living wage. Simple as that. Thank goodness illegal immigrants came to be exploited so corps could keep their margins/ profits high.

Instead of outsourcing to a sweat shop in Indonesia we've brought it here. Awesome.
06-28-2016 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
There's gonna be a breakaway if Corbyn stays.
Having both Labour and the Conservatives split in two would be a brilliant result, we might get interesting politics, like I thought we might get when Corbyn was appointed, then the rest of the PLP showed themselves to be same old same old
06-28-2016 , 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BitchiBee
This is such a misreading of history. Current levels of mass migration rarely happened. Mass migrations that did happen lead to displacement and replacement. Where are the Germans in the Carpathian basin, where are the Greeks in Anatolia. 1000 years ago it was the center of Western civilization.

500k a year is scary mass migration level stuff. If wanting to preserve your culture is xenophobia then sure. Empires are not good things for the people.

Also your Roman example is so simplistic and reductionist, Marion reforms anyone, expanding Roman military and citizenry to just the other Italian tribes as the direct reason of the fall of the Roman republic and rise of the Roman empire.
The best example is the USA which has been entirely composed of immigrants since killing the Native Americans.

Same **** was said about Irish, Jews, Italians, Japanese, Chinese, Persians, Vietnamese.......Mexicans.
06-28-2016 , 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixfour
If only someone had thought of this revolutionary idea in the previous 13 months rather than scaremongering to the extent where the two euros I found down the back of my sofa yesterday would make me a sterling billionaire
You still think it's scaremongering when it's coming true?

Leave won on a message of "be scared of the migrants"
06-28-2016 , 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeccross
You still think it's scaremongering when it's coming true?

Leave won on a message of "be scared of the migrants"
I may need to do a couple of hours overtime to afford the extra cost of my next holiday, I think I'll manage
06-28-2016 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BitchiBee
This is such a misreading of history. Current levels of mass migration rarely happened. Mass migrations that did happen lead to displacement and replacement. Where are the Germans in the Carpathian basin, where are the Greeks in Anatolia. 1000 years ago it was the center of Western civilization.

500k a year is scary mass migration level stuff. If wanting to preserve your culture is xenophobia then sure. Empires are not good things for the people.

Also your Roman example is so simplistic and reductionist, Marion reforms anyone, expanding Roman military and citizenry to just the other Italian tribes as the direct reason of the fall of the Roman republic and rise of the Roman empire.
In absolute numbers and distance travelled, current levels of migration is unseen.

In terms of percentage of population moved, the current migration wave probably isn't even in the top 10 over a 20 or 30 year time frame. The Irish potato famine for example led to the migration of probably 20% (at least close to that) of Irish population to England or US.

It is true many of the empires' immigrants were forced to become cannon fodder but even in the Mongolian army, the incorporated people became very important players in Mongolian politics. But this is hardly unique. The fastest way to get a ****load of immigrants is to conquer their homeland.
06-28-2016 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixfour
I may need to do a couple of hours overtime to afford the extra cost of my next holiday, I think I'll manage
oh no :|
we canīt explore the uk people anymore in the summer

more serious... it could be a problem, we have like 25% of UK tourists and lots have vacation homes here...
but still things are cheap, pound could drop to 50c they still can handle i guess
06-28-2016 , 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi$terMJ
Basically nobody is deported in western europe, thats the problem. Theyre treated like local citizens.
This. It's a nonsense to spend so much money and effort and blood of our fellow humans (in the case of the Mediterranean crossings and all the people who have died in and falling off lorries, electrocuted by overhead wires etc. etc.), trying to defend the goal when you can just take the goal away.

If someone is in another country without a work visa then they are just a tourist and shouldn't have (most of) the benefits of citizenship such as right to work or free housing.

If they have a genuine asylum claim (Slovakia received 9 such claims in 2015 so they do exist) then it should be heard quickly and the person should be integrated into society, not some parallel "community".
06-28-2016 , 01:17 PM
06-28-2016 , 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ
This. It's a nonsense to spend so much money and effort and blood of our fellow humans (in the case of the Mediterranean crossings and all the people who have died in and falling off lorries, electrocuted by overhead wires etc. etc.), trying to defend the goal when you can just take the goal away.

If someone is in another country without a work visa then they are just a tourist and shouldn't have (most of) the benefits of citizenship such as right to work or free housing.

If they have a genuine asylum claim (Slovakia received 9 such claims in 2015 so they do exist) then it should be heard quickly and the person should be integrated into society, not some parallel "community".
i changed my mind about the refugees since they rejected houses and support from my state to go to germany and uk or idk.
that thing was kinda of lol of them , but okey.
people all happy to help...and they all leave\ dont come lol
06-28-2016 , 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00001


oh no :|
we canīt explore the uk people anymore in the summer
Don't worry, the British girls will still let you explore them. A perfect holiday being sun, sand, sea, sangria and sex.

Sangria being Spanish obviously but Portuguese wine will do nicely

About the pound generally, it's still overvalued IMHO. Exporters could do with it being even lower.
06-28-2016 , 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ
Don't worry, the British girls will still let you explore them. A perfect holiday being Sun, sand, sea, sangria and sex.
lol
they are fun i like
06-28-2016 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente
Do you think I'm hating on immigrants?! Think again. I'm hating on the peope / corporations that expoit the **** out of them/ cause a huge mess.

In terms of agriculture- farmers and big corporations would rather let crops rot in the fields than pay its citizens a living wage. Simple as that. Thank goodness illegal immigrants came to be exploited so corps could keep their margins/ profits high.

Instead of outsourcing to a sweat shop in Indonesia we've brought it here. Awesome.
I'm all for policies that allow developing countries to develop (for real, not just as pseudo-colonies) and having that cause a drop in immigration, but just restricting immigration won't help.
06-28-2016 , 01:24 PM
@00001 This is definitely a cultural difference between some countries. There are women-sharing cultures and women-not-sharing ones. Apart from a few loons nobody in Britain minds if a foreigner is with one of "our" women.
06-28-2016 , 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ
Don't worry, the British girls will still let you explore them. A perfect holiday being sun, sand, sea, sangria and sex.

Sangria being Spanish obviously but Portuguese wine will do nicely

About the pound generally, it's still overvalued IMHO. Exporters could do with it being even lower.
Sangria itīs the same here i guess, wine and fruits.
Same name... guess itīs same drink.
Donīt know the origins thought.
06-28-2016 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy
It is true many of the empires' immigrants were forced to become cannon fodder but even in the Mongolian army, the incorporated people became very important players in Mongolian politics.
The Mongolian Empire is a weird example. It basically lasted about 70 years other than the part of it which more or less became Chinese (in China, so the "Empire" itself emigrated).

      
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