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Old 12-30-2010, 03:08 PM   #201
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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Originally Posted by valenzuela View Post
However our model has failed compared to many asian countries that went for more protectionist models, they have added value to their exports nowadays and we dont.
Well, atleast youre not Ireland eh?
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:11 PM   #202
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

The media always wanked over Ireland following the IMF policies and being succesful, I havent heard them wanking since.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:05 PM   #203
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

Venezuela's Chavez devalues bolivar currency again

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Venezuela devalued its bolivar currency for the second time in 12 months on Thursday, abolishing the lowest exchange rate to the dollar as the OPEC member battles to revive its economy. … The central bank said it would eliminate the exchange rate of 2.6 bolivars per dollar, which has been available for essential imports such as medicines and some foods, accounting for about 30 percent of all forex transactions.

Economists had forecast a devaluation given the parlous state of Venezuela’s finances despite high global oil prices… They expected that President Hugo Chavez, who trumpets his “21st century socialism” policies as a model for the world, would want to take the political pain of a devaluation as early as possible before seeking reelection at the presidential poll in December 2012.

“Politically, it is the right thing to do. They are devaluing now so as to avoid it in 2012 and take the inflationary hit in 2011,” said local analyst Miguel Octavio, of BBO financial services. “It’s brutal for the ordinary Venezuelan because it will affect food and medicine prices.”

… From Jan. 1, in a still-complicated currency control system, dollars will be available at the state-controlled rates of 4.3 bolivars for some preferential goods and 5.3 bolivars to the dollar via the Central Bank’s SITME exchange system.

“The 2.6 rate is being eliminated,” Central Bank President Nelson Merentes told Reuters.

Goldman Sachs senior economist Alberto Ramos applauded the elimination of the lowest exchange rate, saying the multiple tiers encouraged inefficiency and corruption.

Critics say Chavez is leading the economy to ruin citing nationalizations, the byzantine system of currency controls, subsidized oil supplies to allies like Cuba and other policies intended to entrench his socialist agenda.

The bolivar had already been devalued in January of this year, adding to annual inflation estimated at 26.9 percent. That move had sent Venezuelans rushing to shops to make purchases before prices rose, but there was no immediate evidence of similar panic buying on Thursday.

A handful of Venezuelans interviewed at random by Reuters seemed surprised and displeased by news of the devaluation.

This is going to affect the poor. Everything’s going to go up now,” said 55-year-old housewife Esperanza Sarmiento.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:48 PM   #204
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

That doesnt seem like a very good idea to me either, that is why Venezuela has a black market.
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:23 AM   #205
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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Originally Posted by Chant View Post
Give it up, man, Americans will never, under any circumstances, ever link our prosperity to any heavy handed, under handed, selfish, greedy, thieving, violent, terrorist tactics.

You can shout it all day, point to all the hard evidence you want, use logic, reason, and facts until you're so tired you can't even speak anymore, and they will not listen and comprehend, much less admit to any of it.

Well, except for me, but I want the hell out of this country, so I don't count.
“I will never apologize for the United States of America, I don't care what the facts are.”
-George Bush
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:13 AM   #206
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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Originally Posted by valenzuela View Post
The Economist is a joke. in Chile we have the same gerrymandering but they have never ever said anything against it.At least the gerrymandering venezuela has was done by people elected democraticly. I agree this is not fair play but I would like some consistency from The Economist.
Btw gerrymandering doesnt work all the time, it backfired for Chavez twice.
If you think that article's about gerrymandering then you managed to read a whole two sentences before dismissing it.

It talks about how Chavez just used his powers to cripple his democratically elected opposition in the legislative and judicial branches and to grab near autocratic power.

How do you feel about that?
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:53 PM   #207
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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he got rid of analfabetism
anal what?
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:35 PM   #208
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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If you think that article's about gerrymandering then you managed to read a whole two sentences before dismissing it.

It talks about how Chavez just used his powers to cripple his democratically elected opposition in the legislative and judicial branches and to grab near autocratic power.

How do you feel about that?
The judicial system has been rigged a long time so I dont care about that. The judges are imposed from the elite, there is nothing democratic about the judicial system.
I dont think its a good idea in the long run to bypass the legislative branch for obvious reasons, the main one that it sets a bad precedent. But I understand the logic behind it, Im still skeptical though.
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:24 PM   #209
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

I humbly ask for Valenzulea's opinion of Daniel Ortega ITT. Is he good for his country?
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:35 PM   #210
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

I see the sandinistas with sympathy but I dont have a clue about them, their economical policies or their human rights record.
Im from Chile so my knowledge about central america is very limited except for Cuba.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:29 PM   #211
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

No idea about what it's like to live in Venez. but I have met many an engineer from there working in the Oil & Gas industry in Canada. Smart ppl, and they're used to working with heavy oil so they have great experience to work in the oil sands here.

Trust me, these guys don't like freezing their balls off in -30 C to work way up north in Ft. McMurray. Most want to go home but they say it is untenable. Wealth confiscation, food shortages, etc. It's not that they are anti-Hugo, it's just they think the country is run like ****.
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:32 PM   #212
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

http://www.economist.com/node/18233412 - credit-default swaps estimate 50% chance of venezuela bankruptcy by 2015.

The mark of a great leader: seize assets and give them away to your supporters and the people to get re-elected. When it's clear those assets are running out start crippling other branches of government to stay in power without having to win the support of the people.

Like your op said, valen, he is very far-sighted and will surely bring dignity for Venezuelans.
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:01 PM   #213
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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Originally Posted by Mediocre_Player View Post
No idea about what it's like to live in Venez. but I have met many an engineer from there working in the Oil & Gas industry in Canada. Smart ppl, and they're used to working with heavy oil so they have great experience to work in the oil sands here.

Trust me, these guys don't like freezing their balls off in -30 C to work way up north in Ft. McMurray. Most want to go home but they say it is untenable. Wealth confiscation, food shortages, etc. It's not that they are anti-Hugo, it's just they think the country is run like ****.
the ones i work with start to complain when it gets down to 50 F, -30 C sounds awful. I guess working in the oil industry there is a big cluster**** because the government has its hands in everything.
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:32 PM   #214
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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When it's clear those assets are running out start crippling other branches of government to stay in power without having to win the support of the people.
cool story bro, democratic elections in 2012.

Quote:
http://www.economist.com/node/18233412 - credit-default swaps estimate 50% chance of venezuela bankruptcy by 2015.
Lets only point out the bad stuff they do and ignore the good stuff .
Half of the stuff The Economist writes against Chavez was already posted by me and the other half is just rolfcopter. Oh noes, Venezuela owes money to China, because only socialist retards owe money to China amitrite?

Also I didnt say Chavez will bring dignity to poor people, I said he is already doing it. As being far-sighted I dont recall listing that as an atribute of Chavez, in fact I think I only described his policies.
What I did say is that when people think of the "long run" in Venezuela they should also take into account that education has improved.
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:47 PM   #215
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

Valenzuela, you thoughts on Chavez' reaction to the Libya situation?
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:00 PM   #216
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

beats bombing Lybia I guess. I think its basically a way to avoid supporting or condeming Gaddafi, a smart political move, nothing humanitarian about it.

edit: Most of the latinamerican left including me seems to be on the Gadaffi was good but then he lost it camp.

And on a side note Im afraid the same might happen to Chavez.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:38 AM   #217
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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Originally Posted by valenzuela View Post
edit: Most of the latinamerican left including me seems to be on the Gadaffi was good but then he lost it camp..
So, an unelected military dictator was good?
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Old 03-04-2011, 04:29 AM   #218
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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Originally Posted by valenzuela View Post
cool story bro, democratic elections in 2012.
Yes, I know. But recall an earlier article that described how he was crippling the legislative and judicial branches. Obviously what I said doesn't have to happen overnight, but he's certainly on the right path.

Quote:
Lets only point out the bad stuff they do and ignore the good stuff .
Half of the stuff The Economist writes against Chavez was already posted by me and the other half is just rolfcopter. Oh noes, Venezuela owes money to China, because only socialist retards owe money to China amitrite?

Also I didnt say Chavez will bring dignity to poor people, I said he is already doing it. As being far-sighted I dont recall listing that as an atribute of Chavez, in fact I think I only described his policies.
What I did say is that when people think of the "long run" in Venezuela they should also take into account that education has improved.
Yeah, venezuela owing money is a big deal. Chavez's economic policies look unsustainable and a country defaulting on its debts is usually very painful for its people. Which means that its people may pay very dearly for a few years of handouts.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:13 AM   #219
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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Originally Posted by valenzuela View Post
beats bombing Lybia I guess. I think its basically a way to avoid supporting or condeming Gaddafi, a smart political move, nothing humanitarian about it.

edit: Most of the latinamerican left including me seems to be on the Gadaffi was good but then he lost it camp.

And on a side note Im afraid the same might happen to Chavez.
I agree that we should not bomb Lybia unless there is a way to recover the cost of each bomb\missile we use. Somehow i don't feel like paying for it, but enough about that. So, please tell me more about Gaddafi.
He lost it before or after PanAM bombing? Or thats when he was good (according to lefties)? Or he lost it when he started bombing his own people? What was his best quality, besides uncontrolled hate on West, that made him good? Or just hating on West is good enough? Could you please be a little more specific?

P.S Just trying to figure out the difference between "latinamerican" left and local "liberal lefties".

Last edited by Ahigh; 03-04-2011 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:17 AM   #220
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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Originally Posted by nizl View Post
Yeah, venezuela owing money is a big deal. Chavez's economic policies look unsustainable and a country defaulting on its debts is usually very painful for its people. Which means that its people may pay very dearly for a few years of handouts.
Actually...for oil based economy, default is not all that bad. Don't get me wrong, its still sucks but oil based economy would recover a lot faster than anyone else.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:03 PM   #221
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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So, an unelected military dictator was good?
Well purposefully enriching his own family and tribe in Western Libyawhile keeping the Eastern side of the country purposefully dirt poor was good too. It's not like he suddenly did it either. It's been his policy for a long time.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:24 PM   #222
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

Gadaffi lost it circa the late 70s dude at that point there was no reason to justify the dictatorship, maybe I should have said the revolution was good instead. His best quality is making Lybia the best african country to live in.

Last edited by valenzuela; 03-04-2011 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:35 PM   #223
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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Just trying to figure out the difference between "latinamerican" left and local "liberal lefties".
The latinamerican left sees the first world as an opressive force, specially USA.
In that context alliances with people like Ahmadinejad are understandable, I think he is an horrible president but I totally understand why Chavez has him as an ally.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:46 PM   #224
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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cool story bro, democratic elections in 2012.
It doesn't count as a democratic election if the government routinely disrupts and arrests the opposition for expressing their viewpoint.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:31 PM   #225
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Re: The Bolivarian revolution and Hugo Chavez.

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It doesn't count as a democratic election if the government routinely disrupts and arrests the opposition for expressing their viewpoint.
define "disrupt", define "routinely".
Its curious that americans like you have big humanitarian concerns about venezuelans but dont give a **** about colombians, im sure it has nothing to do with the horribly biased media
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