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Barack Obama 2012 Containment Thread Barack Obama 2012 Containment Thread

02-09-2012 , 01:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourFins
Nope, they often spew knowingly false information to get their viewer base all frothy. Everything Greenwald writes about is either linked to facts and articles or a very logical conclusion based on facts that were presented earlier in the article.

A reputation of not sucking the tit of the democratic party like a good little boy like you want?

You responded to someone linking to the article to discredit Greenwald because he doesn't live full-time in America. You attempted to discredit him this way because your personal beliefs of being a good Democrat are strongly challenged by the information in the blog post and you can't really refute what he writes.

You're only attempt at discrediting Greenwald is that "his reputation preceeds him" and that because he spends most of his time in Brazil, he is not worth being listened too. Greenwald presents logical arguments based on vast amounts of knowledge and articles that is clearly linked to throughout his blog, and you can't refute his actual arguments so you resort to cheap, personal attacks.
I will agree that Greenwald is a far more sophisticated and clever deceiver than Hannity et al, but he is still a dishonest hack.

NDAA FAQ: A Guide for the Perplexed
Quote:
The volume of sheer, unadulterated nonsense zipping around the internet about the NDAA boggles the mind. There was a time–only a few months ago–when the NDAA detention provisions were the obscure province of a small group of national security law nerds. Now, however, this bill has rocketed to international notoriety. The added attention to it is a good thing. It’s an important subject and warrants genuine debate and discussion. The trouble is that much of the discussion is the intellectual equivalent of the “death panel” objections to the health care bill. While certain journalists have done a good job covering the controversy, it’s much easier to get bad information than good. The reader who wants answers to simple questions faces a confusing array of conflicting information.
Greenwald also writes glowingly about racists running from POTUS, and therefore I have no time to listen to his chicanery.
02-09-2012 , 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungle survivor
I'm not totally clear on what you see as the ramifications of this policy, but I will expand on my own thinking.

That graph says 58% of Catholics agree with the Obama administration while 37% disagree. Exit polling from 2008 has Obama with 54% of the Catholic vote, McCain 45%. I take the combination of these data points to suggest that opponents of the Obama administration on this issue are overwhelmingly likely to be GOP voters that he would never swing to his side regardless, and so this policy is not a mistake for the election.



You may be right. But it may be that many Obama voters, non church attenders, will not like their Church being forced into this position. It may be that any non-Catholics will be concern about the same thing.

There are, I hope, millions who value the first amendment. The questions include, "How concerned will this action make these millions?" As well as " How many Catholic will resent this action as an attack on their Church."?

If you are right, "opponents of the Obama administration on this issue are overwhelmingly likely to be GOP voters that he would never swing to his side " that could still leave 10% of the Catholic voters among those who voted for Obama and opposes Obama's "attack" against their church. A fraction, say 1/3, of these would represent about 0.6% of the US population.
How many state's electoral votes could be changed by 0.6%?

Of course it will be more complicated than that. Different areas have far higher/lower percentages of Catholics than other areas. Some states, many in the south, will not be effected much . Other in the rust belt will be effected more. Some groups, Hispanics for one, may be effected more/less than others.

I just do not see this as having a simple to call result for 2012.

Last edited by JohnWilkes; 02-09-2012 at 01:50 AM.
02-09-2012 , 01:27 AM
I mean, I did skim the article earlier, and I read the last one someone here posted.

In the linked article, Greenwald says that NDAA authorizes indefinite detention of US civilians, which it does not.

Greenwald also states that Obama is assassinating US civilians, which is nonsense. You lose your US citizenship when you conspire to wage war on the US and then hide-out in Yemen. al-Awlaki's son was not targeted for assassination.
02-09-2012 , 03:20 AM
lol at the republicans trying to turn the birth control thing into a controversy. On one hand they're trying to change the conversation now the economy is starting to turn around. On the other hand they're massively on the wrong side of things here anyway.
02-09-2012 , 09:35 AM
Dumb conspiracy idea ofne day........Obama had the contraception requirement passed to bolster Frothy and push Romney even further right.........any takers?
02-09-2012 , 11:28 AM
That's exactly what they did. Also, when Rodney was governor in Massatutes he ordered Catholic hospitals to provide the morning after pill to rape victims. Frothy has already attacked Rodney on the similarities of Romneycare and Obamacare, this is justice more ammo.
02-09-2012 , 11:31 AM
If they don't build the Keystone pipeline, would not Canada have to build the refineries in Canada. If they do that they will flood the U.S. market with cheap gasoline.

If they ship it to the gulf it becomes an international commodity, thus they can ship it to China if they want to manipulate prices. You go to rural Wyoming or Montana and they have some of the cheapest gas prices in the country.
02-09-2012 , 02:37 PM
Greenwald stays gettin dem ******s mad.
02-09-2012 , 02:43 PM
02-09-2012 , 04:00 PM
REINFLATE THAT BUBBLE!
02-09-2012 , 04:55 PM
Was quite pleased to read about the nuclear plant.
02-09-2012 , 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlelou
Was quite pleased to read about the nuclear plant.
Agreed. I think nuclear has to be part of the equation in the future as fossil fuels start to run out (I don't think we will ever move off of fossil fuels due to global warming concerns, at least in next decade or so). Nuclear, despite multile accidents, is still better than coal plants (from the mining to the emissions), natural gas (from the drilling to the emissions).

Renewables won't be able to completely take over, it has to be in tandem with nuclear IMO.

The idea of a nuclear meltdown is pretty damn terrifying (SimCity did not help me on this one) but all in all it has to be used.
02-09-2012 , 05:54 PM
I like that it is in California too. Stop sucking up WA cheap electricity.
02-09-2012 , 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlelou
I like that it is in California too. Stop sucking up WA cheap electricity.
Quiet you before we take "the 5" away and keep it all to ourselves.
02-09-2012 , 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
Quiet you before we take "the 5" away and keep it all to ourselves.
If you would take some traffic I would gladly call the road something different.
02-10-2012 , 11:35 AM
I too am happy to see the nuke stuff. Key component of our energy policy in the decades to come.

"Moving away from fossil fuels in order to address climate change is the biggest challenge facing our power sector, and safe nuclear power will be an important part of that solution," Richard Caperton, director of clean energy investment at the left-leaning Center for American Progress said in a statement.
02-10-2012 , 11:50 AM
Obama is supposed to change course on his birth control/abortion pill mandate today.

Any predictions on what he does? How will it play?
02-10-2012 , 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by peetar69
Obama is supposed to change course on his birth control/abortion pill mandate today.

Any predictions on what he does? How will it play?
It's out. He is going to make the insurance companies pay for it. It's a back door way of making it more beneficial to women. All the aggregators have it up now.
02-10-2012 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonaspublius
It's out. He is going to make the insurance companies pay for it. It's a back door way of making it more beneficial to women. All the aggregators have it up now.
Obviously someone has to pay for birth control. Women paying for their own birth control just isn't fair.
02-10-2012 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the steam
Obviously someone has to pay for birth control. Women paying for their own birth control just isn't fair.
Spoiler:
Women are paying for their birth control with their insurance premiums
02-10-2012 , 03:52 PM
^At least the part that their employer isn't covering.
02-10-2012 , 04:00 PM
OK? And the women do work for their employer in exchange for the employer offering that benefit. I mean, if I get in a car accident, and my insurance company pays for a new car for me, is that a "free pony?" If my insurance includes roadside assistance and I use it to get a jump start, is that a free pony? OMG SOCIALISM!
02-10-2012 , 04:01 PM
Yeah, employer insurance coverage is a form of payment.
02-10-2012 , 04:43 PM
"This ObamaCare rule still tramples on Americans' First Amendment right to freedom of religion," Jordan said in a written statement. "It's a fig leaf, not a compromise. Whether they are affiliated with a church or not, employers will still be forced to pay an insurance company for coverage that includes abortion-inducing drugs."

lol @ "abortion-inducing drugs." this is 2012. how it's not absolute political suicide for anyone to take this stance when HALF of the country are women is beyond me. like, what woman isn't for birth control? other than 65 year old grannies on a plantation in alabama?
02-10-2012 , 04:47 PM
lol who has employer-paid insurance coverage?

      
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