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Old 04-14-2017, 12:03 AM   #26
DudeImBetter
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Re: America & North Korea

So what's the ideal (while still being reasonable) outcome w/ N. Korea, assuming the relevant status quo foreign policy through Obama is maintained?

Asked another way, what eventually would happen before North Korea could gain the ability to use ICBMs to deliver nuclear weapons to their desired targets?
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Old 04-14-2017, 06:35 AM   #27
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Re: America & North Korea

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Originally Posted by DudeImBetter View Post
So what's the ideal (while still being reasonable) outcome w/ N. Korea, assuming the relevant status quo foreign policy through Obama is maintained?

Asked another way, what eventually would happen before North Korea could gain the ability to use ICBMs to deliver nuclear weapons to their desired targets?
In my opinion, the United States would never allow them to obtain ICBMs. They would bomb that facility.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:19 AM   #28
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Re: America & North Korea

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In my opinion, the United States would never allow them to obtain ICBMs. They would bomb that facility.
The U.S. wouldn't just bomb one facility. They'd need to unleash a full arsenal against the Jong-un regime and all military installations imo. I say this b/c I believe if the U.S. bombs one N. Korean facility then N. Korea will strike Seoul in an all out assult. I don't see a gray area or middle ground in this spot.

Off topic: if I'm an international student, au pair, etc. in Seoul, I'm already out of that city.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:49 AM   #29
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Re: America & North Korea

What is the policy, justification, etc, that says we are allowed to say who and who can not have nuclear weapons, especially when we have hundreds. This is one thing that's always irked me about US foreign policy.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:25 AM   #30
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Re: America & North Korea

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What is the policy, justification, etc, that says we are allowed to say who and who can not have nuclear weapons, especially when we have hundreds. This is one thing that's always irked me about US foreign policy.
There is fairly broad consensus across the international community, not just in the US, that nuclear proliferation is dangerous and should be prevented. I think the base rationale is that the more nuke there are and the more people that have control of nukes, the greater risk of their use/ a nuclear war. I'm not really that informed though, that's just what I've gleaned over the years.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:27 AM   #31
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Re: America & North Korea

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Just give Pyongyang the next four Olympics, they'll be bankrupt soon enough.
Lol nice. What a way to find humor in such a grave mess of a situation
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:20 AM   #32
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Re: America & North Korea

The non-fun part: The next winter Olympics 2018 are in Pyoengchang, South Korea.
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:29 AM   #33
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Re: America & North Korea

*nuclear winter Olympics
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Old 04-14-2017, 12:24 PM   #34
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Re: America & North Korea

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The non-fun part: The next winter Olympics 2018 are in Pyoengchang, South Korea.
And some people thought Rio was dangerous.
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:15 PM   #35
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Re: America & North Korea

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The non-fun part: The next winter Olympics 2018 are in Pyoengchang, South Korea.
Maybe this is actually 28D chess by Trump. He's just trying to ramp up tensions until the Olympics have to be moved, then the US can graciously offer to host on short notice.
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Old 04-14-2017, 02:18 PM   #36
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Re: America & North Korea

Some weird warnings from China:

China Warns of ‘Storm Clouds Gathering’ in U.S.-North Korea Standoff

Air China is suspending flights between Beijing and the North Korean capital of Pyongyang.
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:23 PM   #37
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Re: America & North Korea

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There is fairly broad consensus across the international community, not just in the US, that nuclear proliferation is dangerous and should be prevented. I think the base rationale is that the more nuke there are and the more people that have control of nukes, the greater risk of their use/ a nuclear war. I'm not really that informed though, that's just what I've gleaned over the years.
And the theory always was the US and Russia could essentially be trusted not to do stupid **** with them.

So much for that.

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Old 04-14-2017, 03:25 PM   #38
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Re: America & North Korea

Kim Jong-un orders evacuation of Pyongyang
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The Pravda report said that in accordance with the order, 600,000 people should be urgently evacuated.
600,000 WTF?!
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:36 PM   #39
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Re: America & North Korea

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Originally Posted by fuluck414 View Post
And the theory always was the US and Russia could essentially be trusted not to do stupid **** with them.

So much for that.

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Regarding the current tension on the Korean peninsula, China is the country holding all the cards and the levers to diffuse the situation. Have you asked yourself why they haven't already?
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:41 PM   #40
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Re: America & North Korea

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Originally Posted by Money2Burn View Post
There is fairly broad consensus across the international community, not just in the US, that nuclear proliferation is dangerous and should be prevented. I think the base rationale is that the more nuke there are and the more people that have control of nukes, the greater risk of their use/ a nuclear war. I'm not really that informed though, that's just what I've gleaned over the years.
It's been awhile since I read about this topic so take this with a grain of salt. I think you're basically right, though.

So on a nukes per country level the case against proliferation is geared more towards USA/Russia who have enormous, unnecessary stockpiles which (esp with Russia) are not very secure. So a decrease in that stockpile should also decrease the frequency of warheads going missing and being used by terrorists or being sold to shady nation-states.

Now the argument of whether nations should have the right to develop their own nuclear weapons is uh ongoing. In theory if you have nukes then MAD would ensure the nation's survival. Nukes are also a way onto the international stage. Deterrence (and to a lesser extant saber-rattling) is used as currency to negotiate better deals for more resources which theoretically should also lead to better lives for the people. So why is the US and others acting like *******s and keeping nations like Iran from protecting themselves or getting a seat at the table?

The reason most talked about is the perils of proliferation. If Iran gets nukes then other countries in the region will feel threatened and get nukes etc. Which is obviously a pretty good reason. But I also suspect that if Iran was culturally the Canada of the middle east and wanted to develop nuclear weapons the international community would let it slide and deal with the consequences later. But that's just my opinion.

Basically it's an argument between sovereignty/state's rights and theoretical proliferation/international instability. And right now it's in the US's best interest to be on the 'no more nations get nukes' side.
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:52 PM   #41
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Re: America & North Korea

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Off topic: if I'm an international student, au pair, etc. in Seoul, I'm already out of that city.
But if you're a Korean student from Busan you stay?
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:59 PM   #42
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Re: America & North Korea

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But if you're a Korean student from Busan you stay?
Be tough to leave your family/established life in your homeland.
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Old 04-14-2017, 04:43 PM   #43
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Re: America & North Korea

Sorry, I mean a Korean student in Seoul from Busan. Like, there are plenty of non-international people in Seoul who could presumably get out of the city too.
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Old 04-14-2017, 04:50 PM   #44
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Re: America & North Korea

China wants N. Korea as a buffer against the U.S. in the region. They don't want a unified Korea that is anti-China and aligned with the U.S. They also don't want millions of refugees flooding into their country if N. Korea's government or economy collapsed.

The U.S. doesn't want N. Korea to have nukes because they are viewed as a hostile enemy nation. It has little or nothing to do with non-proliferation and security concerns, and everything to do with not wanting an enemy to gain MAD deterrence.

This is yet another case where criminal U.S. foreign policy comes back to bite everyone in the ass. When Iraq and Libya were persuaded to abandon their nuke programs due to international non-proliferation pressure, their regimes were subsequently overthrown. North Korea is well aware of that precedent, and they feel like getting the bomb is the only way to defend themselves against not only a U.S. attack, but also aggressive U.S. foreign policy.

You have to remember that the governments of South Korea and Japan are basically U.S. puppet states. They have no hegemony and do whatever the U.S. tells them to do. North Korea, belligerent and dysfunctional as they are, at least have their own sovereignty and they would like to keep it. The U.S. and China would like to control them. And that's what this is all about.
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:52 PM   #45
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Re: America & North Korea

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I'm beginning to think this was a bogus story (I mean "fake news"...sorry, Donald). Not seeing Pyongyang evacuation reports anywhere else.
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Old 04-14-2017, 06:36 PM   #46
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Re: America & North Korea

To be fair, if Trump is able to legit handle this **** without much damage he is gonna look like a boss. Last 3 prez did nothing and then he handles it within 3 months?
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Old 04-14-2017, 06:44 PM   #47
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Re: America & North Korea

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To be fair, if Trump is able to legit handle this **** without much damage he is gonna look like a boss. Last 3 prez did nothing and then he handles it within 3 months?
I already regret asking, but what is "handling it" in your opinion?
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Old 04-14-2017, 06:45 PM   #48
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Re: America & North Korea

Gets rid of Kim with minimal damage

Obviously it is a longshot (or is it? I feel like the info about what NK can do is all over the place) but I'm just saying.
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:04 PM   #49
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Re: America & North Korea

Trump sending Pence to South Korea to fix everything. Probably safe to close this thread now.
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:28 PM   #50
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Re: America & North Korea

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I already regret asking, but what is "handling it" in your opinion?
Get China to deal with NK.
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