America & North Korea - Page 10 - Politics and Economics

Two Plus Two Forums Other Topics Politics

America & North Korea

...

Page 10 of 59

First

5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 20 30

Last

Page 10 of 59

First

5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 20 30

Last

04-29-2017 , 03:20 PM

#226

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,483

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Lol

Maybe, but what makes you think they didn't. The Bush admin certainly doesn't have much credibility here.

04-29-2017 , 03:28 PM

#227

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,483

The idea that killing the leader fixes everything is dumb as hell.

04-29-2017 , 04:56 PM

#228

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

The USS Carl Vinson has arrived! Maybe. Possibly.

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/stat...21487820320768

04-29-2017 , 06:03 PM

#229

bobman0330

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 24,234

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

NK is such an insanely closed society that it's almost impossible to get assets on the inside to do that kind of work. Possible that there was a Stuxnet-style hack, but even then I think the most plausible explanation is that the rocket just failed, as many early rocket tests in the 50s-60s did.

I think people overestimate the kind of James Bond **** we can pull with NK. Like, John Kasich recently suggested "taking out" Kim with some kind of Seal Team 6-style raid (which is kind of an astonishing thing for a politician to say). I have no idea how you pull that off without eyes on the ground.

Here's a discussion:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile....fense.amp.html

I feel like I read somewhere (though maybe I just made it up) that one of the things they do is compromise hardware that's going in to NK rather than relying on having assets in country to mess with stuff.

EDIT: Those Kasich quotes are something else. Like, KJI died quite recently and it made things worse, not better.

04-29-2017 , 06:25 PM

#230

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

Trump was just on a CBS Face the Nation interview sounding as clueless as ever.

CBS/Dickerson: Mr. President, you and the administration said to North Korea, 'Don't test a missile.' They have tested a missile. Is the pressure not working?
Trump: Well, I didn't say, 'Don't test a missile'...This was a small missile. This was not a big missile. This was not a nuclear test, which he was expected to do three days ago. We'll see what happens.

LMAO

04-29-2017 , 06:28 PM

#231

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,984

MSM - please don't goad Trump into attacking N Korea kthx.

04-29-2017 , 06:32 PM

#232

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

MSM - please don't goad Trump into attacking N Korea kthx.

Oh they're trying. Hard. Here's the whole thing:

Quote:

President Donald Trump said Saturday he "will not be happy" if North Korea conducts another nuclear test, and he declined to rule out a U.S. military response to such a provocation.

"I don't know. I mean, we'll see," Mr. Trump said of possible military action during an interview with CBS News' John Dickerson that will air Sunday on "Face the Nation" and Monday on "CBS This Morning."

The interview came just one day after North Korea test-launched a ballistic missile Friday from the western portion of the country. The launch, which failed shortly after lift-off, came after recent U.S. pressure on North Korea to cease its provocative behavior.

"Mr. President, you and the administration said to North Korea, 'Don't test a missile.' They have tested a missile. Is the pressure not working?" Dickerson asked Mr. Trump.

"Well, I didn't say, 'Don't test a missile,'" the president began. "He's going to have to do what he has to do. But he understands we're not going to be very happy. And I will tell you, a man that I've gotten to like and respect -- the president of China, President Xi -- I believe has been putting pressure on him also. But so far, perhaps nothing's happened and perhaps it has. This was a small missile. This was not a big missile. This was not a nuclear test, which he was expected to do three days ago. We'll see what happens."

Dickerson followed up, "You say, 'Not happy' -- what does that mean?"

"I would not be happy," Mr. Trump repeated. "If he does a nuclear test, I will not be happy. And I can tell you also, I don't believe that the president of China, who is a very respected man, will be happy either."

"'Not happy' mean military action?" Dickerson asked.

"I don't know," the president responded. "I mean, we'll see."

Trump: "I will not be happy" if North Korea conducts another nuclear test

04-29-2017 , 06:36 PM

#233

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,984

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

And the drumbeat for war begins. Gotta save those poor concentration camp victims, by killing 100s of 1000s of other N. Koreans and putting the same # of S. Koreans at risk. It's our moral obligation!

Follow up:

My reply:

Quote:

I hear you. But is it reason enough to kill 100s of 1000s of N. Koreans and put the same # of S Koreans at risk?

His reply:

Quote:

I don't believe the collateral damage will be high at all. Behind the curtain, North Korea is a 4th world country with very low technology

Sigh. Dude is a very nice, thoughtful guy. Never posts politics, but likes Trump on FB.

04-29-2017 , 07:45 PM

#234

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,483

The urban areas of NK don't seem that backwards. An article in the LA Times last week was also talking about some liberalization in small business. And NK is definitely less closed than it previously has been. Years ago basically no one went in.

04-29-2017 , 08:28 PM

#235

fuluck414

veteran

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,281

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

Ya, I've actually looked into getting in to play a round of golf. You have to jump through a **** ton of hoops but it's very doable.

04-29-2017 , 08:44 PM

#236

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,054

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuluck414

Ya, I've actually looked into getting in to play a round of golf. You have to jump through a **** ton of hoops but it's very doable.

I can't tell if this is a joke.

04-29-2017 , 08:47 PM

#237

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,722

Yeah, I would advise not supporting NK by patronizing their golf courses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

NK's really in a chaotic state right now from what I gather. Kim assassinating his brother suggests that he's paranoid about a coup attempt.

04-29-2017 , 09:44 PM

#238

fuluck414

veteran

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,281

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbrochu

I can't tell if this is a joke.

Nope, entirely possible, at least 5 or 6 years ago it was.

04-29-2017 , 09:57 PM

#239

campfirewest

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,926

Turns out North Korea actually does have golf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang_Golf_Course, I'm now re-thinking my entire attitude towards them. They may not be so bad after all.

Edit: This may be my best chance to win an open championship: http://www.northkoreanopen.com/home.html

Last edited by campfirewest; 04-29-2017 at 10:04 PM.

04-29-2017 , 10:32 PM

#240

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Sure, the leadership has changed but North Korea agreed to suspend nuclear work in exchange for aid in 1994, and there were subsequent deals: https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

NK did halt testing and perhaps the nuclear program until the highly unreliable Bush administration made unverified claims that they didn't and stopped following the 1994 agreement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Lol

This article was posted in SE recently, and though parts of it (like, everything about racism) are dumb as hell, this part backs up microbet:

Quote:

The main incident here has to do with the “Agreed Framework between the United States of America and the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea,” signed between the two countries in 1994. The Agreed Framework — as it is usually called — basically traded the end of North Korea’s nuclear weapons program for normalized economic and diplomatic relations with the United States.

As a good faith step to spur the negotiations North Korea submitted to limited weapons inspections while the United States cancelled military exercises with South Korea. North Korea also used its plutonium production plants for energy, so the United States agreed to work with allies to provide them with fuel oil until two light water nuclear reactors — nuclear power plants that cannot be weaponized — could be built.

The United States failed to uphold its end of the agreement almost immediately. Two weeks after it was signed, Republicans took back Congress and labeled the agreement “appeasement.” They never provided sufficient funds for providing the fuel oil and the United States never met the obligations set in the Agreed Framework.

The Americans also failed to take even the first preliminary steps in building the light water reactors for over four years, and then moved at such a slow pace that there was no chance of meeting the timelines set in the Framework.

Finally, and most significantly, Congress blocked any attempts to begin normalizing relations between North Korea and the United States and Pres. Bill Clinton never pressed it to do so.

North Korea played along for at least four years and even warned us that it was going to restart its nuclear program a year before it actually began a pilot program. According to Leon Sigal, author of Disarming Strangers: Nuclear Diplomacy with North Korea, the North Koreans did not shift from this pilot effort to a full-scale weapons program until Pres. George W. Bush refused new negotiations in 2001.

North Korea “was playing tit for tat — cooperating whenever Washington cooperated and retaliating when Washington reneged, in an effort to end enmity,” Sigal wrote in 2007. This extended to the later Six Party Talks between North and South Korea, the United States, China, Japan and Russia which almost brought North Korea back into the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Talks broke down when the United States refused to release $24 million frozen in a Macau bank account, and North Korea tested its first nuclear weapon six months later. But for that $24 million there might be no nuclear threat from North Korea today.

I haven't independently researched this so I'm taking him at his word, but feel free to provide an opposing viewpoint if you wish cfw. The link you posted corroborates parts of this - going through the timeline, there's zero mention of LWRs actually being built until 1999 (when a contract is signed to start building them, five years after the Agreed Framework) and they never actually get built (in 2006 the organization set up to build them says "**** this, we're out").

Last edited by goofyballer; 04-29-2017 at 10:41 PM.

04-29-2017 , 10:56 PM

#241

campfirewest

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,926

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

This article was posted in SE recently, and though parts of it (like, everything about racism) are dumb as hell, this part backs up microbet:

I haven't independently researched this so I'm taking him at his word, but feel free to provide an opposing viewpoint if you wish cfw. The link you posted corroborates parts of this - going through the timeline, there's zero mention of LWRs actually being built until 1999 (when a contract is signed to start building them, five years after the Agreed Framework) and they never actually get built (in 2006 the organization set up to build them says "**** this, we're out").

Very interesting..... I need to do some more reading up on this. From what I've been going through so far it seems like neither side stuck to the 1994 deal.

04-30-2017 , 11:43 AM

#242

dinopoker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,437

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

We've been trying to do that since the 90's.

And how many have died?

04-30-2017 , 12:05 PM

#243

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

A nuclear test (or worse) on Day 101 would troll Trump tremendously.

04-30-2017 , 12:33 PM

#244

cuserounder

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Good luck getting the course record, though.

04-30-2017 , 01:24 PM

#245

ecriture d'adulte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 5,913

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuserounder

Good luck getting the course record, though.

lol...nice

05-03-2017 , 04:47 PM

#246

SuperUberBob

Not interesting enough

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 48,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Not if Kim Jong Un competes. Heard he got a 38 under par including 5 aces just like his dad.

05-03-2017 , 05:05 PM

#247

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperUberBob

Not if Kim Jong Un competes. Heard he got a 38 under par including 5 aces just like his dad.

North Korean tee boxes: Mens, Ladies and Kims.

05-03-2017 , 05:13 PM

#248

unwantedguest

Guest

Posts: n/a

Starting to think nothing gonna happen at all now, after Trump said repeatedly that China will help and he'd meet KJU no probs.

He's all mouth, weakest president ever but just don't tell him someone on the Internet said so.

05-03-2017 , 07:18 PM

#249

SuperUberBob

Not interesting enough

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 48,217

Trump just wants pointers on being an effective dictator from KJU.

I'm sure Robert Mugabe is in the queue behind Duterte who will give Trump advice on handling drug problems.