Without question China is currently acting in their national interest which I applaud them for. Their national interest is to see Rocket Man torment America so Pres. Xi can dangle some obscure "getting tough" with the north (to keep favorable trade intact) and keep playing the delay game til NP perfects their ICBM's and someone like Fauxcahontis or Bernie is elected and the thread from America disappears. Great game by them....my respects.

Our only course of action is to change the status quo and make it in CHINA'S national interest to reign in Rocket Man. Threatening them with giving S. Korea and Japan 2 dozen thermonucular weapons with a range of say 3,000 km delivery vehicle (for their defense, of course) might just focus Xi's resolve vs NK......

That removes NK's threat to Japan and S. Korea (knowledge that he will certainly be destroyed with any move vs S. Korea and Japan) allows us to partially disengage and puts China's bacon in the frying pan.

Why would China want to torment the US? That makes no sense. 18% of all Chinese exports come here.

Holy ****, your solution is to give SK and Japan, neither of whom want nukes and either of whom could easily make their own, nukes.

Why would China want to torment the US? Maybe because we are their #1 adversary on the world stage?

To answer your own question, "Then why isn't China leaning on NK harder?" Because they now have their cake and can eat it too.. They aren't the least bit concerned about a hypothetical flood of refugees.... they'll just do what they did to their own bloody citizens at Tienanmen Square in the 80's.... mow 'em down.

The last time one superpower wanted to arm a country close to another superpower with nuclear weapons the world got close to World War III. Want to roll the dice again?

I could not disagree more. I expect China would love a de-escalation of hostility between NK and the US. Why are they our adversary? Competition for foreign markets? First, we are their biggest foreign market and they wouldn't want to jeopardize that. Second, I don't think they really worry that much that we will undercut them elsewhere.

What does that mean here, to have their cake and eat it too?

China has internal problems of its own and certainly does not want more Tiananmen Squares.

Not a good analogy....Cuban missiles were merely a forward deployment of Soviet hardware under Soviet command and control. The technology at the time was completely different.

Of course China could avoid such a situation by actually putting the actual squeeze on NK....

I mean it is not like America doesn't have nuclear assets patrolling off the coast of China.

It is preposterous of course. Japan would never in a million years accept nukes and SK has upheaval already over the THAAD missiles.

Much more likely is our reliance on military threats instead of diplomacy results in alienating Japan and SK and even more pressure there to get American soldiers and weapons out.

If that was the case they could bring the full weight of China to bear on Rocket Man.... but they havent because doing this little Kabuki dance with us benefits them immensely... they get to play good cop with us saying all the right things while not doing anything near the max of what they could do ans say to NK in private..."..... psssst.... atta boy!"

Are you trying to tell me China can't make NK bend to their will? Seriously? They do control 90% of NK's trade. How long do you think NK's generals stay loyal to Rocket man if their wives are picking grain out of feces to eat?......

China doesn't want NK to fall apart. Also lots of Chinese, rich Chinese, benefit from trade with NK. NK is cheap labor for them.

What benefit do they get from playing good cop in Kabuki theater?

They might if they were told accept them and have some skin in the game or we go home and leave you to the tender mercies of Xi, Kim and Putin.

There is a similar scenario to learn from, the anti INF protest movement in the early 80's which tried to block the deployment of Pershing II's and nuclear armed cruise missiles. The Euros accepted them and then a disarmament treaty was negotiated

I am also curious who takes the worst of it if we leave S. Korea and Japan.... us or them????

Just curious how that negotiating thing has been working out since 1953 and more recently the last 25 years?

The get to negotiate better trade terms with the USA if they are needed to help keep NK "under control".

If they (NK) don't have a nuke program they aren't relevant to the USA and we couldn't give 2 ****s on a rainy day about them.

Why would NK fall apart without a nuke program? America would spend an erg of energy worrying about them.

It is in everyone's best interest for them not to have a nuke program. We have zero intent of invading them if they aren't a threat to the US mainland. The have more money to spend on productive things....

"All the deterrence he needs" seems silly to me given USA#1 has had the capacity to blow up the Earth a dozen times over. Kim has Seoul hostage and now he can credibly deter the US. No one is going to **** with him any time soon. Seems like he's played a weak hand exceptionally well.

I'd also point out that "rational" actors brought us ridiculously close to Armageddon during the Cuban missile crisis.

Sanctions could make NK fall apart. Chinese pressure. Like you said, people picking seeds from manure.

np9112602179914:

seems like your mind is already made up.

Negotiations would have worked out much better if we'd have followed through with our commitments from 1994.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconv...-from-it-80578

MAD is only relevant of the actors are sensible.

Kim can't really checkmate the USA at this point. He can't have any confidence of getting a retaliatory strike off if America decides to "come heavy".

Of course, Kim doesn't seem to consider we have no reason to invade NK if they aren't a threat with nukes. The have no resources we might want as in the middle east. They have a blood brother hedgemon on their border to "defend" them. We'd have zero reason to attach NK sans nukes. They already hold Seoul hostage....

And rational actors did actually prevent Armageddon. It was a true believer Castro who was in favor of "taking one for team Socialismo". The Ruskies weren't anxious to pull the trigger and they didn't.

Curtis Le May.... well.... thanks for civilian control.......

I have an opinion but i would be happy to hear a better tangible suggestion to stop Kim from developing a gaggle of thermonuclear devices with the ability to hit the USA with impunity.....

Quite frankly I wouldn't sleep well in Seoul or Tokyo the day after Kim has a credible attack capacity over the USA... because I cannot think of a single thing to prevent him from invading the south.

It's been *months* since South Korea had a mass uprising to remove the daughter of a dictator from being head of state. Isn't it about time nuclear weapons were forced on them?

It's very hard to take you seriously when you insist on using Trump's moronic nicknames.

You really think so.... 4 US administrations left NK with no other choice than to peruse ICBM's???

Again.... someone tell me why America is going to reasonably invade NK unprovoked?????

Hit the US with impunity?

Negotiations worked. Sanctions have only been valuable as pressure for negotiations to start.

If we were half way smart we could redo 1994 and peacefully end the NK nuclear program. But we're not. The mix of war mongers who see every relationship as adversarial (eg you and China) and western interests who make a ****load of money off the military make this nearly impossible.

KJU wants to stay rich and in power and thus alive. Keep that in mind and negotiations aren't so hard.

More likely you don't have a reasonable course of action that gets America out of Kim's bulls-eye (you feel better now?)

You don't think South Korea and Japan have "skin in the game"?

1. Pretty much if you are clear that you mean the NK dictators and not NK the country. They made the 1994 agreement and then the US hawks have been threatening invasion and contending that living up to our agreement or even restarting talks is impossible until NK does what? There's basically nothing they can do. History shows that. Iraq opened wide for inspectors and it didn't help them.

2. Because it's in our nature. We do it more than any country in the world. To prevent them from getting nukes. Irrational fear. Racism. To make money. To sell arms. To keep the war economy going. And no one can stop us.