#3 makes no sense. Individuals and private charities can't provide health care for 75 million people, it's impossible.

its time for me to stop posting but im pro choice no matter what.

Lol

Grunching



source

Qs

i) If Roe is overturned how likely is it we'll see a "It's down to the states" ruling v. a "Abortion is outlawed" ruling? Or should I expect something more oblique where states de facto set their own laws for a few years while the issue is litigated back to the SC?

ii) Given the apparent overwhelming popularity for Roe, if we got a "It's down to the states" ruling, how many states would legalise abortion?

iii) 23 v. 71 is pretty darn significant - if Roe was overturned, how realistic is a constitutional amendment?

Not an expert, but iii) is like 0.0%.

SCOTUS could not outlaw abortion by a ruling. They would necessarily turn it back to the states, and then maybe Republicans in Congress put up hundreds of sham ban votes ad infinitum that fail due to filibuster or veto. Lots of red states outlaw abortion in all cases, including rape and incest.

I actually don't understand the logic of rape/incest exceptions to abortion bans.

Lol not seeing the logic in abortion-related topics.

Since the abortion debate is really about shaming women for having sex, the rape and incest exceptions are for when they aren't liable for the sex.

It certainly doesn't follow the logic of those with views tethered to religion. All life is a gift from God and the who and how of any conception is irrelevant as all life is sacred.

Rick Santorum is someone who comes to mind as to being logically consistent on the pro life side of abortion, but those who support the rape and incest exception are just cherry picking their religious beliefs...

This is always weird, in my age bracket of mostly lifelong Conservatives (not republicans but conservatives) I don't think more than 2 in 50 really even care one way or the other. I frankly care less. Working in some really bad places for a decade taught me one thing.....a lot of babies were noting close to better off being born. The abuse, neglect and torture of really millions and millions of kids by either drug addict parents or just simply don't care is awful to watch. You will never see a tv special about that. Not every person deserves a child, and the huge decade long responsibility it is to raise one. That said I am all for abortions. Now as logical human, there is no reason to wait until you have a kicking child, I don't believe in late term. But again I care less because the laws will never change. It will never stop being legal. A total nonsense distraction.

Does all that biased nonsense with zero basis you wrote after "states" just mean that nothing will change? Blue states stay the same. Red states stay the some. Maybe a couple here and there change but in general, nothing changes Mr Wookies? I think or hope everyone knows the Scotus cannot just make abortion legal everywhere nor illegal everywhere.

Uh, the Supreme Court did make abortion legal everywhere.

Coming soon to a USA near you

Is it possible to respect the views/aims of pro-lifers in as much as advocating responsible sexuality, birth control, promoting the value of life, and encouraging the individual at their personal level to accept responsibility for their actions, while also firmly supporting the availability of abortion, from a pragmatic sense, understanding that individuals exist who will never live by any amount of self-control, and also recognizing that banning abortion would create a worse strain on society and result in bigger problems?

What you are advocating is called liberalism, not being pro life. We have no reason to actually respect the position of the pro life crowd because they oppose birth control, free prenatal care, guaranteed parental leave, subsidized child care, adoption by gay people and non Christians, etc. They have no interest in promoting life. Their interests are punishing women for having sex and making sure that they are stuck caring for their kids themselves without any help.

Ok but can you oppose those efforts by the idiot far right to curtail such freedoms while simultaneously respecting the message of pro life?

What is the message of pro life?

That abortion is not a good thing, there are alternatives that are better, in an ideal world, there would be no need for abortion.

Is agreeing with those things incompatible with recognizing allowing abortion is better than outlawing it?

abortion is both good and bad, context is important

at the end of the day, it isn't (or shouldn't be) your choice to make unless you're the one carrying the fetus

Agreed

No, the message of pro life is to oppose reproductive freedom and the rights of women. The liberal position is that abortions should be rare due to comprehensive sex education, free birth control, and more opportunities for adoption by loving parents, no matter their identities. There is nothing in the pro life movement worth salvaging, because anything good is already in the liberal position on the subject.

lol is this a troll? you don't think there's anything good possible out of a pro-life perspective? no wonder we get people like trump

That's like some very extreme version of banning headache pills for people with a hangover.

what would be banned? I'm all for allowing abortion. I think the goal is for it to be minimized, we'd all agree on that? so what's necessarily wrong with pro lifers encouraging their own to not have abortion, and trying to urge responsibility, as long as they don't impede on other people's choices? As long as they don't overstep their boundaries, which obviously many of them do, I think it is possible to respect their viewpoint and see that they could have a net positive on this situation.