Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Politics political discourse

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2018, 05:17 AM   #1
David Sklansky
Administrator
 
David Sklansky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,096
That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Don't know how to link to it but maybe one of you can. To someone like me who is not very familiar with the issues, the lady seemed to acquit herself pretty well. Do you disagree?
David Sklansky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 07:59 AM   #2
tame_deuces
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tame_deuces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,228
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Having lived as a neighbor to both Soviet and Russia all my life, it seemed like their typical tack. Whataboutism in large doses, change the subject when pressed and attack the credibility of the questions instead of answering them.

But the Russian pièce de résistance has always been to just get a minor portion of the accusing country to believe them. Confuse and split, it's what they always did and what they do today.

Last edited by tame_deuces; 01-08-2018 at 08:05 AM.
tame_deuces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 12:45 PM   #3
redbuck
veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: S GA
Posts: 2,053
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

She was exactly what would be expected. She made such a big deal about all of the US media bashing Russia, and said basically "what if we did that to you"? I expected a giant "who give a flying ****" from Leslie S, but she let it slide.
redbuck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 12:50 PM   #4
Loki
Currently Loki
 
Loki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Participating in buffoonery
Posts: 11,895
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

I'm always surprised that basic "whataboutism" is considered some masterful debate tactic, but apparently it works on self-confirmed math geniuses. Not sure how I'm immune to such terrible, blatant logical fallacies.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 01:03 PM   #5
estefaniocurry
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 664
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Not sure how I'm immune to such terrible, blatant logical fallacies.
This is one of the hallmarks of stable genius.
estefaniocurry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 01:10 PM   #6
Loki
Currently Loki
 
Loki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Participating in buffoonery
Posts: 11,895
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

But I'm not even an equestrian!
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 01:15 PM   #7
SuperUberBob
Not interesting enough
 
SuperUberBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 41,978
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Once you become aware of whataboutism and how to spot it, you also become less affected by it.

The real problem is that whataboutism is so heavily integrated into mainstream social and political discourse that it is starting to become an acceptable norm in discussion rather than a propaganda technique that deserves to be derided.

The 2020 Presidential debates are going to be rife with whataboutism and red herrings because they are more effective than coherent, on-topic arguments when it comes to misinformed/uninformed prospective voters.
SuperUberBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 03:27 PM   #8
Bill Haywood
Pooh-Bah
 
Bill Haywood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: May you live to throw 1,000 shoes
Posts: 4,435
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

A Russian government funded broadcaster called Russia Today is serving Moscow's interests?

Well blow me down.

Soon there will be a Radio Deutsche Welle, Radio France, Voice of America, and La Voz de Nicaragua.

Hope they don't start a лиса news, that would be the totalitarian singularity.

Oh wait, sorry, it's whataboutism to apply standards to western media too.

But what about Leslie Stall's whataboutery? She closed the piece with the delicious irony that if RT has to register as a foreign agent in the US, Russia will make the western media do the same thing over there. What about US whataboutery?

Seriously though, I don't think it is sound to dismiss Russian claims that the west propagandizes as whataboutery. It's really saying that state influence of media in the west is not a legitimate topic, only official enemies can be stigmatized thusly.

A plague on both their houses is the better approach.

And there's nothing new about whataboutery. Ever since the first complaint about bad breath, the retort has been what about your stinky feet.

Last edited by Bill Haywood; 01-08-2018 at 03:40 PM.
Bill Haywood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 03:35 PM   #9
playinggameswithu
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 157
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

I like how RT tells the slanderous truth. The lady sounds like the typical communists of Eastern Countries. These are the sorts of argument tactics you needed to know to get out of going to prison for 20 + years for saying sh*t against the state back in the day.
playinggameswithu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 04:29 PM   #10
GermanGuy
veteran
 
GermanGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Overplaying top pair
Posts: 2,050
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haywood View Post
A Russian government funded broadcaster called Russia Today is serving Moscow's interests?

Well blow me down.

Soon there will be a Radio Deutsche Welle, Radio France, Voice of America, and La Voz de Nicaragua.

Hope they don't start a лиса news, that would be the totalitarian singularity.

Oh wait, sorry, it's whataboutism to apply standards to western media too.


You‘ll find hundreds of articles critical of the German government on Deutsche Welle. Good luck with that on RT.
GermanGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 04:45 PM   #11
Morphismus
Gimperator
 
Morphismus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: in you heads
Posts: 14,983
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post
You‘ll find hundreds of articles critical of the German government on Deutsche Welle. Good luck with that on RT.
...you say RT has no articles critical of the German government?
Morphismus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 07:16 PM   #12
Bill Haywood
Pooh-Bah
 
Bill Haywood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: May you live to throw 1,000 shoes
Posts: 4,435
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post
You‘ll find hundreds of articles critical of the German government on Deutsche Welle. Good luck with that on RT.
My guess is that Radio France might be an even better place for Deutsche bashing. Just like the Guardian has more balanced coverage of the U.S. than a lot of American papers.

It's a truism that you read the foreign press to learn about your own country. It is what it is. If Deutsche Welle is 40% better at self-criticism than RT, then bully for it.
Bill Haywood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 07:26 PM   #13
GermanGuy
veteran
 
GermanGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Overplaying top pair
Posts: 2,050
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Well, by "that" I meant something equivalent, like RT criticizing the Kremlin.
Just a few random examples:
http://www.dw.com/en/german-foreign-...key/a-42070523
http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-the-era...end/a-42045351
http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-murder-...ces/a-41975314
GermanGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 08:42 PM   #14
David Sklansky
Administrator
 
David Sklansky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,096
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

What I found interesting in the interview was the quite explicit point she was making about our 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia. Something that few Americans even contemplate or even know about. Was she right about that?
David Sklansky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 09:04 PM   #15
Paul D
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Paul D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: L.H.O.O.Q.
Posts: 12,839
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

That was a joint effort from NATO. And I'm sure if you over a certain age and watched any news you would have heard about it. Especially the air pilot who escaped after his jet crashed. Though after check. That was 95.
Paul D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 09:09 PM   #16
Bill Haywood
Pooh-Bah
 
Bill Haywood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: May you live to throw 1,000 shoes
Posts: 4,435
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
What I found interesting in the interview was the quite explicit point she was making about our 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia. Something that few Americans even contemplate or even know about. Was she right about that?
Yes, if by that you mean Russians feel encircled long-term by U.S./Nato military menace. The 1999 bombing continued this, because it was considered a violation of their area of influence. How would we feel if Russian bombs favored the Zetas or some other Mexican cartel?

Not defending, just saying those are common Russian views.

We learn a lot about both empires when they start the whataboutery about each other.
Bill Haywood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 01:39 AM   #17
Wakko
adept
 
Wakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: avoiding Crown Casino like it's HIV
Posts: 752
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

  • been on site for 16 years
  • cant figure out how to post links on site
Wakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 03:33 PM   #18
estefaniocurry
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 664
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

I'm a big fan of RT. It's fun to listen to reports about the collapse of the American colonial enterprise in Puerto Rico and the dangers of walking down the street in Houston.
estefaniocurry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 07:36 PM   #19
markksman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
markksman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ITT
Posts: 14,272
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haywood View Post
Yes, if by that you mean Russians feel encircled long-term by U.S./Nato military menace. The 1999 bombing continued this, because it was considered a violation of their area of influence. How would we feel if Russian bombs favored the Zetas or some other Mexican cartel?

Not defending, just saying those are common Russian views.

We learn a lot about both empires when they start the whataboutery about each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakko View Post
  • been on site for 16 years
  • cant figure out how to post links on site
Some 2003 battling itt.


As for the topic I haven’t watched the interview yet but I am curious now because I really want to learn how Yugoslavia is a gotcha in regards to Russia crying unfair about American media treatment of them.

As for them quid pro quoing us I don’t care, Russia is not an ally, it is not a friend at it is not currently in a state where any realistic progress can be made in that area. I literally would be more interested to making strides with Iran before Russia.
markksman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 05:36 AM   #20
David Sklansky
Administrator
 
David Sklansky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,096
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman View Post
Some 2003 battling itt.


As for the topic I haven’t watched the interview yet but I am curious now because I really want to learn how Yugoslavia is a gotcha in regards to Russia crying unfair about American media treatment of them.
It was unrelated. It was her answer to the question as to what restarted Russia's antagonism to us.
David Sklansky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 03:49 PM   #21
ShttsWeak
veteran
 
ShttsWeak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,077
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rt-edit...paganda-label/

It's obvious she considers herself a journalist and not a government tool. She acknowledged that government controlled media outlets are going to skew reporting in line with national interests. The difficulty in calling RT out on "disinformation" is that media outlets here come pretty ****in close to doing the same thing. The major difference and problem now is the social media angle and the fact that you can very easily shape the opinions of the average uninformed working class individual.


This stuff has been going on for along time. It can be hard to comprehend what subversion is and what it accomplishes but the USSR invested heavily in it and Russia will continue that until it's no longer rewarding or the costs outweigh the benefits. That goes especially if they believe they dictated the results of a ****in presidential election.

http://ndupress.ndu.edu/Portals/68/D...ectives-11.pdf
ShttsWeak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 07:24 PM   #22
13ball
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
13ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: No Quarter is a Sandy Hook Truther
Posts: 12,885
Re: That 60 Minutes RT Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post
You‘ll find hundreds of articles critical of the German government on Deutsche Welle. Good luck with that on RT.
Not to mention that RT has spread conspiracy theories like 9/11 was an inside job and your basic Hillary Clinton is a tool of the Illuminati:

13ball is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online