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Old 01-12-2018, 02:39 AM   #2351
batair
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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Originally Posted by Inso0 View Post
This is a legitimate criticism, but there are also reasons to do what they did. Some of those may be entirely self-serving for Walmart, but not necessarily all.

Have you ever worked retail? Telling employees the store is closing weeks/months before it does can be a fantastic way to make those last few weeks/months miserable for all involved, including customers.

In the late 90s a good friend of mine worked at a CompUSA. They knew about their store closing, and it was a ridiculous free-for-all of shenanigans for that final stretch.

Still, you have a legit criticism there. It's a bit ****ty.
With the pay and treatment of its employs a little looting and sabotage seems fair.


Last edited by batair; 01-12-2018 at 02:44 AM. Reason: I joke...mostly.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:15 PM   #2352
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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Originally Posted by TheHip41 View Post
but if that same firm takes out a billboard on the expressway, the taxpayers should cover that?
Advertising and marketing are legitimate business expenses and should be deductible.

Taking advantage of the system by writing off meals and entertainment that really have nothing to with the business is not legitimate and shouldn't be deductible. I'd be willing to bet most people know exactly what I'm talking about here.

** I realize business aren't always taking advantage and it's hard (if not impossible) to distinguish between "taking advantage" and a legitimate M&E expense.

In theory, I like it if they are at least trying to remove the fraudulent deductions -- but I'm still skeptical.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:17 PM   #2353
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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Originally Posted by VanceAce View Post
Advertising and marketing are legitimate business expenses and should be deductible.

Taking advantage of the system by writing off meals and entertainment that really have nothing to with the business is not legitimate and shouldn't be deductible. I'd be willing to bet most people know exactly what I'm talking about here.

** I realize business aren't always taking advantage and it's hard (if not impossible) to distinguish between "taking advantage" and a legitimate M&E expense.

In theory, I like it if they are at least trying to remove the fraudulent deductions -- but I'm still skeptical.



I don't really care about this deduction either way, but the fact they are removing deductions is going to hear S-corp owners.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:06 PM   #2354
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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I don't really care about this deduction either way, but the fact they are removing deductions is going to hear S-corp owners.
The same S corp owners who just got a blanket 20% deduction on all their income? qqqqq
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:42 PM   #2355
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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We both know that's not a short answer, but I'll give you one anyway. Happy employees help create happy customers.

Walmart still has a business to run and shareholders to answer to. There's spending for the sake of employee morale and retention, and then there's simply pissing money away on a losing venture. You have to strike a balance.
I agree with this 100%.

Notice how the tax rate is not mentioned anywhere in your answer?
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:12 PM   #2356
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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The same S corp owners who just got a blanket 20% deduction on all their income? qqqqq
This isnt actually true


There are limits based on lots of things. Most people aren't going to get 20% off the top


To be clear, the tax plan will help most S corps, but there are certain subsets that will lose more deductions than they gain from the pass through law.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:22 PM   #2357
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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Originally Posted by VanceAce View Post
Advertising and marketing are legitimate business expenses and should be deductible.
Explain to me why they are legitimate.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:34 PM   #2358
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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Explain to me why they are legitimate.


They are expenses incurred for the purpose of making more profit.

Similar to hiring employees or buying new equipment.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:37 PM   #2359
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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Originally Posted by estefaniocurry View Post
Explain to me why they are legitimate.
Generally speaking, it's a true costs of doing business.

Revenue - Cost = Profit

Government should only tax a business' profit.
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:02 AM   #2360
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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Another day, another round of companies announcing bonuses and wage increases.

It must really suck to be a liberal.
Remember when this clown was spiking the football because wage increases were the only possible outcome from the tax cuts?

Oh, but also massive layoffs and store closures? Pay no attention to the capitaist behind the curtain!!

lol inso, always and forever.
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Old 01-15-2018, 11:35 AM   #2361
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

It always comes back to the only unchanging factor: being a complete piece of **** with no empathy
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Old 01-15-2018, 09:11 PM   #2362
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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It always comes back to the only unchanging factor: being a complete piece of **** with no empathy
That's exactly right. Describes people like Inso and Wil to a T.
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Old 01-19-2018, 01:38 PM   #2363
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

Empathy or a lack thereof has little to do with running a successful multi-national public corporation. Everyone has a job to do.

If a store isn't making any money, it won't continue to operate. Stop acting like this is some nefarious plot by evil capitalists who just thought it would be fun to **** with the lives of some retail workers. I guarantee you that the person who signed the pink slips took no joy in it.

You all have this cartoonish visions in your head of people like me or executives of large corporations. Bad **** happens to conservatives, too.
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Old 01-19-2018, 01:59 PM   #2364
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

Yes, we have cartoonish visions.
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Old 01-19-2018, 02:01 PM   #2365
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

Some more problems with the do your taxes on a postcard idea.

State definitions are usually tied to the federal definitions so when they reconfigured the income tax with adding and subtracting deductions, they didn't have any hearings on how that would affect state budgets. Turns out it's messing with a lot with some states projected to lose a lot of revenue and others to start taking in a lot more.

Quote:
One option states have is to “decouple” from the federal code, says Richard Auxier, a Tax Policy Center research associate.*Oklahoma*did this preemptively last spring to avoid taking a big revenue hit if Congress ultimately doubled the standard deduction (which it did).

But “decoupling” makes filing taxes more complex, since taxpayers must do earning calculations multiple ways. Allegedly, one of the objectives of the Trump plan was to simplify tax planning and preparation. This would essentially be trickle-down complexity.

The moral of the story: The tax fight isn’t over. In fact, in almost every state across the country, it’s just beginning.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.1179c146d9d0
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:16 PM   #2366
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

Yep. Here in Michigan we take the federal AGI and start there

You get to deduct exemptions (WHOOPS). Those are gone


So that double standard deduction doesn’t do **** for state taxes.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:47 PM   #2367
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Yes, we have cartoonish visions.
Clearly.

You've got dth123451up there calling me a piece of **** because I have the gall to defend the closing of a failing business, which results in people being put out of work temporarily.

I don't always agree with people ITF, but I'm at least civil about it. There are maybe half a dozen posters who I would decline a dinner invitation from. I assume the rest of you are just somewhat normal dudes living somewhat normal lives, and just have a wildly different worldview.

Last edited by Inso0; 01-19-2018 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Though, I did end a quote reply to TheHip41 with, "Don't be such a tool" a while back and was infracted for it. Ima monster
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:59 PM   #2368
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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Originally Posted by Inso0 View Post
Empathy or a lack thereof has little to do with running a successful multi-national public corporation. Everyone has a job to do.

If a store isn't making any money, it won't continue to operate. Stop acting like this is some nefarious plot by evil capitalists who just thought it would be fun to **** with the lives of some retail workers. I guarantee you that the person who signed the pink slips took no joy in it.

You all have this cartoonish visions in your head of people like me or executives of large corporations. Bad **** happens to conservatives, too.
The whole thing came about because bonuses were supposed to be the start of a glorious rise for the American worker. If bonuses count as the positive, why doesn't people getting laid off count for the negative?

The answer is of course they both count. The bonuses came suspiciously around Christmas time, when bonuses normally come out, wage increases could be happening because the market is nearing full employment, and layoffs happen because all enterprises usually have some amount of churn. All of which have little to do with taxes

The truth is no one really knows the exact effects of the tax bill. Employees may get the 20% tax burden relief in higher wages, they may get none of it, they may get all of it. No one knows.

I suspect that employees will get scraps if anything at all and it'll all go to shareholders and management because employees have little to no leverage, and a larger percentage of corporate profits are coming from rents, but that's just my opinion.
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Old 01-19-2018, 05:02 PM   #2369
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inso0 View Post
Empathy or a lack thereof has little to do with running a successful multi-national public corporation. Everyone has a job to do.

If a store isn't making any money, it won't continue to operate. Stop acting like this is some nefarious plot by evil capitalists who just thought it would be fun to **** with the lives of some retail workers. I guarantee you that the person who signed the pink slips took no joy in it.

You all have this cartoonish visions in your head of people like me or executives of large corporations. Bad **** happens to conservatives, too.
Hi Inso0,

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltedDonkey View Post
Ins0,

If Walmart closes stores and lays people off when they are unprofitable instead of giving those employees charity, why did they so charitably give those employee raises and bonuses after the tax cut?

Surely, Walmart is not in the business of paying its people more than the necessary market price, right? So what gives?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inso0 View Post
We both know that's not a short answer, but I'll give you one anyway. Happy employees help create happy customers.

Walmart still has a business to run and shareholders to answer to. There's spending for the sake of employee morale and retention, and then there's simply pissing money away on a losing venture. You have to strike a balance.
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I agree with this 100%.

Notice how the tax rate is not mentioned anywhere in your answer?
?
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Old 01-19-2018, 05:14 PM   #2370
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

Bonuses were so they could get more value in PR from the news than $ they gave out; they dgaf about employees they wish they could fire them all.
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Old 01-19-2018, 07:04 PM   #2371
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

Not many business owners/managers ITT.
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Old 01-19-2018, 07:18 PM   #2372
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

Idk, there's at least one person who spent a good amount of time on welfare itt, so you'd think they could empathize with those laid off.
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Old 01-19-2018, 08:56 PM   #2373
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

I don't know if my managment on a Venezuelan food collective counts
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Old 01-21-2018, 05:00 PM   #2374
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

Well, what would you do if a handful of families in your collective can't afford to continue paying in, but still show up for their "share" when the truck arrives?

If you do anything but tell them to go away, then I think you'd be a pretty terrible manager of said food collective. Those other families are counting on you to make the best possible use of their limited resources to ensure the paying families get the biggest bang for their food bolívar. The collective exists to lower costs for participating families, but not as an outright charity.

It's not a fair direct comparison to an unprofitable retail location for a large corporation, but the same basic concepts apply. The business exists to take care of people, but there's no real obligation to provide charity to those who aren't benefiting organization as a whole.

Am I wrong? If so, why?

If you were to continue to pay the workers in the unprofitable store out of the earnings of the profitable ones, then why wouldn't you also justify giving a paycheck to literally anyone who shows up to wear a blue vest for 4-8 hours at a time? Are they any less deserving of pay for their "work" than the people who were officially hired by management when the store was still profitable?


Unless all we're talking about here is whether or not it's "bad" that a store closed. In which case, I fail to see what the argument is. Of course it's unfortunate that stores close and people lose their jobs. But that's life. That doesn't mean you can't be happy for the people who are still employed at a higher wage with a bonus check in their pocket. Do you think if those tens of thousands of employees with the $1k bonus and pay raise were given the choice of giving that back to pay for another year of operating those unprofitable stores, they would do it? I'd say most of them would decline and keep the cash/raise. You might even have a large number take the 2+2 approach and suggest that they not only keep the bonus/raise, but "management" should instead pass around the collection plate at corporate in order to keep those stores open. After all, they have more than enough, right? Unfortunately that math doesn't always work out.

It certainly is easy to spend other people's money. What happens when there's no more left? Napkin math says if you redistribute all of the reported income for the top 1% of households (not individuals) in the US, you'd be handing out ~$10-12k to the other 99% of households. But that's just an average, and considering the top 1% includes a ton of small business owners, you've just crippled the economic engine of your entire economy. Congratulations.
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Old 01-21-2018, 06:20 PM   #2375
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Re: 2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

Dude, Ins0, that's all fine. But none of it explains how you think that these $1k bonuses are somehow an economic consequence of the tax reform.
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