2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right? - Page 37 - Politics and Economics

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2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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11-06-2017 , 12:36 PM

#901

otatop

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Quote:

Originally Posted by maulaga58

They negotiating to end obamacare mandate on health insurance to include in final tax reform bill will add more revenue.

Getting rid of a tax will increase tax revenue, okie dokey.

11-06-2017 , 12:49 PM

#902

maulaga58

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,048

Quote:

Originally Posted by otatop

Getting rid of a tax will increase tax revenue, okie dokey.

They are claiming 300 billion over 10 years

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...te-through-tax

11-06-2017 , 12:50 PM

#903

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by maulaga58

They are claiming 300 billion over 10 years

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...te-through-tax

Well, if he said so, I'm sure his claim is unassailable.

11-06-2017 , 12:51 PM

#904

otatop

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Republicans would never lie right to our faces about something, we can trust good ol' Tom Cotton.

11-06-2017 , 01:38 PM

#905

bobman0330

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Yeah, I'm aware of nonsense GOP talking points. Thanks.

The point is that if these CEOs and boards actually had a fiduciary perspective, they would want a low share price so they could buy their oh so awesome business for cheap. Instead these clowns will, in the same speech, brag about their high share price while announcing another round of buybacks.

lol, this makes zero sense.

11-06-2017 , 02:07 PM

#906

ecriture d'adulte

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Are you saying CEOs and boards shouldn’t try to tank the share price? Might just be crazy enough to work.

11-06-2017 , 02:08 PM

#907

Riverman

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Jerk each other off all day. Buybacks at all time high prices are a terrible use of capital.

11-06-2017 , 02:13 PM

#908

Namath12

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Bob Casey's thread on the bill is decent imo

https://twitter.com/SenBobCasey/stat...91144799789056

11-06-2017 , 02:16 PM

#909

spaceman Bryce

anything you guys want

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 20,961

Quote:

Originally Posted by +rep_lol

glad to see you back bryce

If you actually like me I need all the help I can get. I'm on phone and can't clear pm box though.

11-06-2017 , 02:20 PM

#910

bobman0330

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Jerk each other off all day. Buybacks at all time high prices are a terrible use of capital.

Wait until you hear about dividends! Sending money out into the ether and getting nothing at all in return!

EDIT: I mean, to be a bit more constructive here, the conceptual problem is that buybacks are not a "use of capital" they are a way to give capital to the shareholders in a tax-efficient way. The company is not setting up a side business trading its stock against its own shareholders.

11-06-2017 , 02:23 PM

#911

Riverman

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No ****. There are options beyond "dividend or buyback."

11-06-2017 , 02:25 PM

#912

simplicitus

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Doesn't removing the healthcare mandate violate reconciliation rules. As I understand it, the House plan is already in violation. If that's true, then the House bill is basically a "solid effort" draft, and the Senate may borrow some ideas, but expect a completely different Senate bill. Once again, the GOP is unmatched when it comes to "performative" government.

11-06-2017 , 02:31 PM

#913

SenorKeeed

mew mew mew

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

No ****. There are options beyond "dividend or buyback."

But dividends generally promote good stewardship of companies unless they have lots of organic growth opportunities. There is nothing wrong with paying a dividend, and not paying a dividend can often be very irresponsible.

And stock prices tend to grow exponentially, so if the company is buying shares back you're going to be buying them back at record highs quite often.

11-06-2017 , 03:03 PM

#914

spaceman Bryce

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Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 20,961

I've always thought dividends were a good thing because you can make a lot of money just by holding stocks. The bad thing is you have to pay taxes on them.

11-06-2017 , 03:06 PM

#915

ecriture d'adulte

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If companies don’t give dividends or do buybacks they can find plenty of ways to burn the money that returns no value to shareholders.

11-06-2017 , 03:17 PM

#916

otatop

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Or they can do what Apple's been doing for a while now and just build a huge money pile to look at and admire.

11-06-2017 , 03:37 PM

#917

SenorKeeed

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Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

Quote:

Originally Posted by otatop

Or they can do what Apple's been doing for a while now and just build a huge money pile to look at and admire.

Which egregiously violates Apple's fiduciary duty to their shareholders

11-06-2017 , 03:57 PM

#918

Huehuecoyotl

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It's probabilistic. The odds of getting a Republican Congress/President who will let that money in at a much lower rate vs having it sit out of hands of shareholders forever. I'm sure Apple could make the case to shareholders to wait it out until it's favorable for a holiday.

11-06-2017 , 04:21 PM

#919

spaceman Bryce

anything you guys want

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 20,961

I wish I could live off dividends

11-06-2017 , 04:30 PM

#920

aflametotheground

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,851

Quote:

Originally Posted by otatop

Or they can do what Apple's been doing for a while now and just build a huge money pile to look at and admire.

Thats bad economics, they might be looking for a big acquisition.

11-06-2017 , 04:30 PM

#921

TiltedDonkey

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Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 2,975

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

why companies buy back their stock only when it is expensive is, uh, puzzling

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

Actually it isn't. Companies buy back shares with excess cash flow, excess cash flow increases as revenue/earnings increase, earnings/revenue increases drive stock prices higher.

Yeah, this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Uh.. who do you think those CEOs have a fiduciary duty to? Hint: it's the same people they're buying the stock from

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

As a side benefit we would quickly see how charitable these guys are without the tax break. Just get rid of the charitable deduction all together, IMO.

Wow, just terrible take after terrible take.

So, your assumption is: these rich *******s donate a bunch of money to charity that they otherwise wouldn't because of tax break X.

and your conclusion is...

Get rid of the tax break so they'll stop, thus exposing themselves as *******s.

Makes sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoeba

So this is mostly a devil's advocate question but what's the difference between allowing SNAP to be used on Redbull and allowing 529 to be used on k-12 private school?

A better question would be what's the similarity between those two things.

11-06-2017 , 04:40 PM

#922

spidercrab

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Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorKeeed

Which egregiously violates Apple's fiduciary duty to their shareholders

Quote:

Originally Posted by aflametotheground

Thats bad economics, they might be looking for a big acquisition.

Neither of these are true. You can invest the non-repatriated foreign earnings in securities. You can even hold them in U.S. banks/brokerage accounts. So the funds can continue to grow (rather than languish in cash), but you can't pull those funds out and make a business-related acquisition, pay dividends, make repurchases, etc.

11-06-2017 , 04:43 PM

#923

aflametotheground

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,851

Oh is this about foreign earnings they are trying to avoid tax on or something.I get it

11-06-2017 , 05:45 PM

#924

SenorKeeed

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Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

It might be about that now but Apple had a long history of hoarding cash and refusing to pay dividends because it was a "growth" tech company (even though it was having problems spending all its cash on good growth opportunities). I'm sure other companies are now doing the same thing.

11-06-2017 , 08:34 PM

#925

AllCowsEatGrass

banned

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 1,839

Has this been mentioned?

In public schools, most teachers end up buying school supplies for the semester out of their own pockets. Under the current tax code, they can claim tax deductions on these purchases of school supplies. These ****ing piece of **** republicans in congress want to scrap that, to help give the richest 1% of America massive tax cuts.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.068f5e4acabc

This "tax reform" is straight up class warfare against the poor and middle class.

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