2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right? - Page 27 - Politics and Economics

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2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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10-31-2017 , 07:41 PM

#651

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,984

awval, take solace that at least the extra taxes you pay next year will go to job-creating billionaires instead of Lexus-driving food stamp queens.

10-31-2017 , 07:43 PM

#652

SenorKeeed

mew mew mew

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

anyone want to bet that 401k limits will go down? Will take the other side.

10-31-2017 , 08:06 PM

#653

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

I saw some rumblings that the Democrats were putting out an amendment to raise the limit as some trolling.

10-31-2017 , 08:22 PM

#654

pokerchris

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 202

I will bet that 401 K limits will be challenged in the next 15 years.

It is now on the table. This administration and Congress won't touch it.

And, since every time I make a loud proclamation of a bet, someone wants to call me on it, I will only bet $1 on that outcome!

10-31-2017 , 08:30 PM

#655

Riverman

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And they can't even release the House version, delayed until at least Thursday. Turns out, shocker, massive tax cuts for billionaires are really expensive and the only way to pay for them is to **** the middle class!

10-31-2017 , 09:04 PM

#656

pokerchris

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 202

I am guessing that they are going to suggest lower corporate taxes will spur growth.

I think it is faulty logic, not understanding that corporations currently have competitive tax rates when they take advantage of current deductions.

We will see!

10-31-2017 , 09:48 PM

#657

TheHip41

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What a dumb f

11-01-2017 , 12:49 PM

#658

goofyballer

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Republicans Delay Releasing Tax Bill, Signaling Trouble for Party

Quote:

The bill, which had been scheduled for release on Wednesday, was delayed until Thursday, as Republicans struggled with the daunting arithmetic of drastically cutting tax rates without alienating key constituencies by eliminating popular tax breaks. After a day of negotiations on Capitol Hill and confusion across Washington, the House’s chief tax writer acknowledged the delay but vowed to stay on track with an ambitious plan to pass a bill through the chamber by Thanksgiving.

The best people, so much winning etc

11-01-2017 , 12:54 PM

#659

SenorKeeed

mew mew mew

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorKeeed

anyone want to bet that 401k limits will go down? Will take the other side.

bump...any takers?

11-01-2017 , 01:06 PM

#660

ecriture d'adulte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 5,920

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoltinJake

Yeah, Dems need to directly call out the $4,000 as bull**** and then personalize it. Forget about nuance, it's not going to work here.

"The $4,000 is BS. They are lying. If you are (insert personal example here), then you pay MORE under this plan. And why? So the billionaires can get another tax break."

The problem is taxes are low on the list of priorities for anybody but the rich right now. Defeating this by getting the masses to care a lot isn’t possible. Dems really can’t do much but hope republicans fail if they really care about a tax plan not passing.

11-01-2017 , 01:28 PM

#661

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorKeeed

anyone want to bet that 401k limits will go down? Will take the other side.

Quote:

The details of the House Republican tax bill have continued to be intensely debated even over the last 24 hours, but there are two key areas of compromise between House Republican leaders and the White House, according to two sources familiar with the draft bill.

401Ks – The White House, as the President tweeted, wanted to keep the current amount of annual of tax-free contributions ($18,000); House Republicans wanted to lower the limit to $2,400. The bill, as of this morning, does lower what individuals can contribute tax-free to their 401(k)s – but it lowers it to a point about halfway between the current limit and what House Republicans had initially proposed.

Deduction for State and Local Taxes – The latest draft eliminates the deduction for state and local income taxes. But it retains the deduction for local property taxes.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house...ry?id=50861872

11-01-2017 , 01:29 PM

#662

SenorKeeed

mew mew mew

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

Right, I want to bet that a reduction in the 401k contribution limit will not get passed into law

11-01-2017 , 03:32 PM

#663

ecriture d'adulte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 5,920

If they reduce the cap on pre tax contributions to 401ks but don’t reduce the cap on pre tax plus Roth do you win or lose?

11-01-2017 , 06:31 PM

#664

otatop

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Tax reform's going great!

11-01-2017 , 06:49 PM

#665

SenorKeeed

mew mew mew

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte

If they reduce the cap on pre tax contributions to 401ks but don’t reduce the cap on pre tax plus Roth do you win or lose?

in that case I lose

11-01-2017 , 07:10 PM

#666

simplicitus

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,840

Of course they'll screw it up. Also, current approaches to "tax reform" [read, "deficit busting tax cut"] are only of interest to a borderline minority of the GOP base. This is donor maintenance done out loud when it should be done quietly.

Also lol at Trump wanting a 15 or 20% corporate tax rate as a starting position to negotiate, and lying about the relative US tax burden every chance he gets. [Trump LOVES saying things that are semi-true but misleading. He believes such statements are the most perfect form of language.]

This isn't haggling over one of Manafort's expensive rugs, it's more like loading up Noah's ark--you gotta be pretty clear on the big items, and compromise on the little items, and everyone has to be on board with the plan. Guiding Congress is like herding cats, but in this case the cats know more about the issues.

I am eagerly awaiting the "who knew tax reform could be so hard?" tweet. ****ing morans.

11-01-2017 , 08:53 PM

#667

simplicitus

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Republicans promised a tax reform bill by Wednesday. Here’s why they don’t have one.
Nobody knew taxes were so complicated.
Updated by Matthew Yglesias on November 1, 2017 12:10 pm

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/pol...x-reform-delay

Quote:

As Politico reports in an article on the delay, “at the center of the problem were questions about how to pay for the proposed $5.5 trillionin tax cuts.”

Despite months (or, from a certain point of view, years) of work on tax reform, Republicans still haven’t actually gotten anything done in terms of building consensus on contentious issues at the heart of their bill.

11-01-2017 , 08:58 PM

#668

Riverman

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They are so bad at this. They could have just passed a "budget" authorizing whatever amount of deficit spending is needed to pass their POS tax bill.

11-02-2017 , 07:43 AM

#669

bobman0330

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Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 24,234

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

They are so bad at this. They could have just passed a "budget" authorizing whatever amount of deficit spending is needed to pass their POS tax bill.

That only works for the first ten years. They were always going to have to make it deficit-neutral after that. Agreed that they are absolute clowns though. I've been reading on twitter that the bill that gets released today will basically have all the cuts in, un-sunset, without any pay-fors, and they are just hoping to magically fix it later on. Because the negotiations they couldn't solve behind closed doors will be easier out in the open?

Basically we should just lock this thread and open a 2018 tax reform thread.

11-02-2017 , 07:46 AM

#670

bobman0330

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Quote:

Originally Posted by otatop

Tax reform's going great!

I have heard knowledgeable people saying that sunsetting corporate tax cuts doesn't really work, since the CBO models reflect the fact that corporations can do a lot of stuff to pull income forward into years with lower rates, which reduces the tax base and increases the deficit outside the 10-year budget window.

11-02-2017 , 07:56 AM

#671

awval999

Election Monitor.

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,269

The sunset stuff just creates a crisis 10 years on the horizon just like the 2001/2003 tax cuts did in 2011 and 2013.

It will just become in late 2027... "If lawmakers don't do something, the United States will be faced with the largest tax increase in history and TORPEDO the economy".

And then we'll play the same game again.

11-02-2017 , 08:00 AM

#672

awval999

Election Monitor.

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,269

Most current leaked info re: tax bill.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...out-in-writing

Quote:

House Republican leaders plan to unveil a tax bill Thursday that would cut the corporate tax rate to 20 percent and leave it there -- abandoning an earlier plan to phase out the rate cut over time, said a person familiar with discussions on the bill.

The bill would impose a tax of as much as 12 percent on multinational companies’ accumulated offshore earnings, a GOP lawmaker said -- a rate that’s higher than either President Donald Trump or House Speaker Paul Ryan have proposed. It would phase out the estate tax over years, more slowly than either of them would prefer.

The bill isn’t expected to decrease the pretax contribution levels to popular 401(k) retirement plans -- or to repeal the Obamacare individual mandate. It would cut individual tax rates for millions of Americans, but not for earners at the very top of the scale, lawmakers have said. Keeping the top rate at 39.6 percent won’t please conservatives who want across-the-board cuts.

Still outstanding; the SALT/Property Tax deduction, bracket thresholds.

Of course the Senate still gets to tinker with the bill. But I'm going to say, this House version, will be the most "conservative" it could ever be. The bill would only get more moderate from there.

11-02-2017 , 10:24 AM

#673

Namath12

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Mortgage interest deduction capped, adoption credit eliminated, student loan interest deduction eliminated. Doesn't get more middle class than that does it?