lol at the retroactive Roth tax. Just change republicans---->democrats , billionaires--->poor blacks and you have the exact same conversation idiot conservatives were having in 2009.

/thread

There are only two things most (R) congress people can possibly do wrong:

1) Piss off the NRA.

2) Be seen as compromising with Democrats.

That's it. I shake my head every time I read something like "people will notice it in their pay stubs". No, they won't. They'll have a vague memory of once earning more money, then turn on the TV and notice those uppity ungrateful black millionaires refusing to step and fetch for their dinner.

When Republicans came out hard against extending the FICA tax cut for another year, and the base mostly nodded along - I gave up all hope of the base ever holding (R)s accountable on any tax issue. Thwarting the black guy's throbbing agenda just too important, tax me if that's what it takes.

It reminds me of a quote from an MU fan about the MU/KU rivalry (back when they played all the time): "I'd rather see KU lose than MU win."

Imagine how that debate between workers and employers roughly went.

Workers: we want a package that secures retirement.
Employer: I don't want to pay you more, you guys should secure your retirement by saving.
W: Ok we want to be paid more so we can save.
E: I don't want to pay you more, you should invest in the stock market.
W: our savings are not big enough to invest after taxes and fees to trade.
E: I don't want to pay you more, we'll defer your taxes and setup joint funds and i can hire someone to manage your money collectively.
W: We can already do that, and your guy isn't beating the market and in/directly invests into the stocks you own. Why don't you just pay us more?
E: ok, I'll start matching some of your savings but only 50c on the dollar with a cap. that's basically the same as paying you more.

I just volunteered to get laid off. I have 6 years of service at my company. Some of the people with 12+ years have defined benefit pensions. I hate my job, but leaving that would have been a TOUGH decision. I guess I should be glad I just have my ****ty 401k.

That’s not really how it happened. Workers weren’t really clamoring for 401(k)s with matching. It was a cheap way for companies to say they provided retirement benefits without having to give pensions.

Yeah. Just LOL at the standard 3% match. That's ****ing $1800 a year for your average 60k a year working stiff.

One might argue that the problem here, generally, is a generation of american workers being subjected to a propaganda campaign. Remember, capital didn't give up child labor until people organized. That people still buy the myth of the benevolent employer baffles me.

Maybe reread my hypothetical. The workers aren't clamoring in it.

no, its not reasonable. its a tax increase on the middle class for the sole purpose of funding a tax cut for the .1%. its the definition of completely unreasonable and completely unnecessary.

and for the second bolded, I agree. but they have much more strategy than just racism. they have the state sponsored propaganda of fox news. and most importantly the voter suppression and outright vote tampering.

Not if you have the moral vision of the Republican true believer donors who think that the Gilded Age was the most moral time in American history. Where there was little to no taxation on the rich, property was protected, Lochner was in effect, and there was little to no safety net.

They're only raising the taxes on the middle class to placate the deficit hawks. If they had their way 100% of the time we'd have a huge all around tax cut, and Medicaid and Obamacare would be gone to pay for it and we'd be "better" as a nation for it.

I’ll pass. It was bad enough just skimming.

This. Can't believe people don't get this yet.

It's simply not true. People would be furious if Republicans retroactively made big changes in retirement accounts. Tens of millions of Republican voters would be mad.

Hell I don't think they can even do the 401k thing they're proposing. And that is a pretty small change.

Obama tried messing with the College Savings Plans, something that only some small percentage of rich people have and it's not like a ton of money, and people, Republicans and Democrats, freaked out about it.

I mean maybe they can get it through, maybe, but it's not the smooth sailing people are imagining it to be. It's far easier to get stuff through when people think people aren't deserving of it, and retirement accounts aren't one of those.

You guys are so cute. You probably thought Trump admitting to sexual assault on tape would matter too.

Hint on the 529 thing: Republicans went ape**** about literally everything Obama did, ever. Democrats, particularly wealthier ones, pay attention to policy. The Republican Party operates in a post-factual world.

I mean many millions of Republican voters have six figures plus in retirement accounts. And you think that these voters would not be furious if the rules governing these tax advantaged accounts was massively changed? You're completely delusional.

What are they gonna do, vote for a democrat? LOL, if they weren't deplorable and/or paid attention, they wouldn't vote for these *******s to begin with.

Sure they could vote for a Democrat or vote against the Republican ****ing with their retirement in the primary.

Again, Republicans couldn't pass repealing Obamacare, which their entire base wanted for years and years. But they couldn't pass it. Massively changing retirement accounts is wanted by basically no one and would be hugely unpopular among Republican voters. How in the world would that ever get passed? They couldn't even repeal Obamacare!

They only failed to pass it because McCain hates Daddy. 49 senators and the House fell in line. In this case, they will just something something the debt something fiscal conservatism dog whistle obamaphones and lobster with food stamps.

Right, they failed to pass something much much much more popular than ****ing over tens of millions of people saving for retirement. But they'll pass this much much less popular retroactive Roth repeal because....why exactly?

You guys are acting like the Republicans can just pass whatever floats into their head but that simply isn't true. They won't even be able to pass this much milder 401k thing.

The Republicans will find some way to spin the numbers to make it look like Joe Six Pack comes out ahead, FOX News will repeat it, Daddy Trump will re-tweet it, and every one of these voters will be fooled.

they havent passed yet. but we both know it will get passed. and sooner than later.

regardless, you are not an idiot so you understand how disingenuous this argument is. you understand the unreal sequence of events that occurred to keep obamacare (what will be temporarily though).

obamacare repeal was polling at like 17%. cant remember the numbers amongst the base but I dont think it was good there either.

and I agree with you in that they arent gonna just eff up the ROTH retirements for no gd good reason. they will do it as a wealth transfer if need be. and they will make sure that it hurts a small enough subset of their base they wont get tagged.

How will they spin the numbers to make it look like Joe Six Pack comes out ahead?

think about what u just posted, like seriously just sit and think about it without posting for a minute