To be fair, no health care bill ever passed.

And yes, perhaps this will be my "then they came for me moment". But trust me, I won't ever forget.

Victor is grasping at straws here.

Let's just imagine impossible scenarios and blame the GOP for them.

Victor: The GOP is going to just liquidate all retirement accounts and give them to the rich! And the RAYYYCCIST whites will still vote for them. Let's just blow it up. No more elections. GOP owns the government for a generation. Woah is me.

Why? Also, what will the taxes on withdrawals look like?

the delusion is truly special. awval, and ppl like him, truly believe they are special. its not even belief, its something even more powerful and encompassing. like, he cant even fathom that he is just an ordinary schlub like the rest of us.

it permeates from all that he writes. from his long winded and pedantic example of how percentages work, as if we are clueless and helpless children in need of his wisdom, to his utter inability to comprehend that, yes, his beloved republicans are indeed coming for his money, and those simple fools that he just talked down to actually did indeed previously clearly explain to him that would happen.

An uncomfortable amount of Republicans were completely fine with passing a healthcare monstrosity. Only the semi independent Republicans and Democrats stopped it. There probably were more Republicans who secretly didn't want it to pass but that's some insane public performance they have to pull of for their base and donors.

Spoiler Alert, you guys: awval is never ever ever admitting that Trump's plan ****s him over.

why is it insane? if there is a ton of money in ROTH, then its gotta come out. and if the repubs need to transfer some more wealth to the elites, why not take it?

esp if the current tax plan goes thru which will funnel tons of money into ROTHs.

Did you not see all those old white men drinking beer after it PASSED in the house

A bill passed in the house.

this is true. but the question is why? why does he love trump and the republicans so much?

its very strange and it is very hard for normal ppl to understand.

You are asking questions looking for logical responses


This parties health care bill involved taking health care away from 20MM+ and giving money to the rich

What will it look like? It will **** us.

why? for real, you are asking why? bc they can. bc its there. bc its free money. bc this is class warfare, and they won.

It is insane because you're taking a tax-advantaged account that someone has been contributing for decades with clear rules and expectations and turning it into much worse than a regular taxable account. People would be furious, and rightfully so.

He's a white upper-middle class yuppie who will be okay even if Trump ****s over the country. It's easy to just not care about issues and vote for the funny TV sillyman who says silly things and upsets the grownups.

If any of you are hoping for a "gotcha" moment when awval admits he made a mistake, that's not gonna happen, even if Trump inserts a provision that specifically taxes awval by name. I get that it's fun to expose his lies, but don't put effort into it thinking you'll change his mind.

I think you arent paying attention or are simply naive.

you are drastically underestimating the stranglehold that the republicans have on this country currently, and going forward. you are not paying attention to the levers they have instituted that will ensure they remain in power.

ppl will be furious. but it wont matter. bc it wont effect enough ppl. and bc voter suppression and bc fox news.

Well look at that health care bill. It included a large expansion of the health savings account, which basically no one uses as a health savings account. It's the ultimate tax-advantaged retirement account since both contributions and withdrawals can be tax free. And who did that benefit? Exactly the same people that have lots of money in Roths and IRAs and 401ks! Moderately well to do folks.

So OK, Republicans would certainly want to screw over the poor and lower middle class. Granted. No question. But eliminating Roths doesn't screw over the poor and lower middle class, because they don't have any money in those accounts. Higher income people have the large majority of assets in tax-advantaged retirement accounts.

SK,

You are still making the misguided assumption the GOP gives a flying **** about the upper middle class. They simply don't give a **** about people making $300k to $1 million, whose compensation is on a W2.

The party is a wholly owned subsidiary of the billionaire class. They see what Trump gets away with and think "man, why did we pretend to care about people who vote for us? We can just amp up the racism and they'll keep voting for us no matter what! Oh an even if they don't, most of us don't care because all we have to do is win a primary in our rigged district."

This has been mentioned before, but the low-six-figure guys are the perfect class for both sides to dunk on. They're not in the ballin' donor class that the GOP cares about and they're not low-income enough for anyone else to worry over. It's politically easy to slap some taxes on the couple making $300,000 and no one other than WSJ stipple artists are going to be sympathetic to their plight.

I guess I am wrong about the classes of ppl that have a lot of money in ROTH etc. I thought it was most of the middle class of which there are a lot more lower and middle middle class than upper.

also, if these retirement vehicles are sacrosanct, then why are they going after them right now, in this current proposal?

Like when you or I think about a partner at a big law firm, making $1-2 million a year, we think "rich guy." The people pulling the strings for the GOP think "overpaid guy who writes contracts I never read before signing, who, if he had balls like me, would actually be rich."

Sure there are exceptions. But my point was that these tax advantaged accounts are justified partly by the notion that they make people who otherwise wouldn't save for retirement save. That seems to be false. Also, with the backdoor Roth loophole (people say loophole alot in tax conversations but this seems like a true and completely unintended loophole ) people making too much money to contribute directly to a Roth can and use it as a means of tax free inter-generational wealth transfer. Its capped at a relatively low amount like you said, but its being used frequently as tax savings for people who it was never meant for.

no, 401k helps those who already save for retirement accomplish that strategy better. 401k is not by itself meant to increase the percentage of people who save. that's quite clearly a marketing problem and an HR pamphlet with a cryptic "401(k) and You" is not good marketing.

first thing, the actual proposal is reasonable and moderate and wouldn't hurt anyone too badly. People would still have very good retirement savings options and they'd just have to pay taxes sooner, and people who retire with incomes a lot less than when they were working would have to pay a bit higher rate. The ACTUAL PROPOSAL the Republicans are floating is totally reasonable. And it effects the upper middle class more than the lower and middle middle class. Roths are generally worse the more money you make.

Now the plan you guys seem to be hallucinating -- retroactively abolishing Roths after reducing 401k limits -- would be a huge deal and incredibly unfair to those who saved for decades under the current retirement system. Sure Americans are dumb and love to racism but there's a limit to how much you can **** someone over without him noticing.

Sure that's probably true but billionaires don't vote (I mean they do but there's like 1000 of them). Just racism isn't a viable long term strategy for Republicans, they can't win elections if they piss off college educated well to do whites. And it's hard to imagine an issue that will piss off those folks more than saying "oh hey we're retroactively abolishing Roths, deal with it" after they drastically reduce 401k limits and tell people oh hey nbd, just contribute to your Roth.

You seem new to Republicans. 90% of these congress critters can lose their seat only from the right in a primary.

Yes, they are claimed (with matching etc) to incentivize saving. 401(k)s were never meant to be the bulk of people's retirement savings. They initially started as a means for top earners to get a reduced tax bill. Then once pensions got eliminated they became a replacement but have largely failed.

That's not true if they piss off vast swaths of white middle class America, and even if you're right (you're not) losing those 10% of seats would be almost enough to flip the house.

Hell the Republicans couldn't even pass a health care bill that their base has been screaming for for almost a decade. Retroactively abolishing Roths is a proposal that literally no one in their base wants and would bigly piss off tens of millions of Republicans. How in the world would this ever get passed?