right bc the money needs to come from somewhere, and the poors dont really have enough to provide.

everyone with a brain who was half paying attention knew that this administration was going to increase taxes on the middle class. it was well-reported. all preliminary plans that these guys put forth, or even talking points showed this.

they arent taxed right now. but is there anything stopping the gov from deciding to tax them in the future?

Our biannual federal elections?

The guillotine?

We can go round and round on this until we get the final bill, I just can't imagine in the end a Congresscritter would vote for something like that.

The end result of all of this, is going to be a taxpayer's paycheck. Literally the after-tax take home pay that we get biweekly, monthly, etc. We can hem and haw and talk about extra child tax credit, what's deductible and not, but in the end, but the voter is going to see if their paycheck is bigger or smaller on January 1st or whatever when payroll makes the "changes".

Turning a trad 401k into a roth 401k will immediately reduce take-home pay because your retirement contribution will be taken out of take-home pay instead of pretax.

Let me explain.

https://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/hourly/

$75,000 job with 10% retirement contribution in, let's say, California with a Traditional 401k and a biweekly paycheck. Remember a Trad 401k contribution is exempt from Federal and State income taxes. (Single 1 exemption fed and state)

Bi-weekly Gross Pay $2,884.62
Federal Withholding $424.09
Social Security $178.85
Medicare $41.83
California $135.64
SDI $23.37
401k $288.46
===
Net Pay$1,792.38

Now let's change that into a Roth 401k

$75,000 job with 10% retirement contribution in, let's say, California with a Roth 401k and a biweekly paycheck. (Single 1 exemption fed and state)

Bi-weekly Gross Pay$2,884.62
Federal Withholding$496.20
Social Security$178.85
Medicare$41.83
California$165.15
SDI$25.96
401k$288.46
Net Pay
Net Pay$1,688.17

You just reduced the take home pay of this person by $104 per pay. $208 a month! And he/she isn't even maxing the 401k. And yes, there are financial arguments like, well, technically you can save less in a Roth because it's all tax-free in the end, but you explain that to Joe Taxpayer with your fancy pre and post tax retirement account 'splaining.

My quick calculations on a "full max" employee. $100,000 income and $18,000 full tax deferral? $253 less per paycheck.

That type of **** will get the GOP roasted in the midterms.

Getting me all flustered up in here.

I'm a federal employee(wife is too) with a household income less than 200k and we both max out 401ks(TSP). My house is paid off and kid is grown so basically the only real tax break(deferment) we get.

The House budget that recently passed had federal employees paying 5.2% more to our pensions(350+ more monthly) and also ends all cost of living raises once in retirement among other things.

You literally couldn't have worse proposals concerning benefits and taxes than these.

I'd guess 75-80% of my co-workers voted for Trump and around 50% nationally voted Republican from the federal workforce.

I'd guess most of my co-workers don't have the slightest clue about these proposals. I asked one hard core Trump supporter about the cuts and his response was "Trump won't let this happen".

Federal employees have solid pay and benefits so this isn't a case of people lashing out against a broken system.

Why not cut pay and benefits from people too stupid to vote in their own interest?

They will see it when their take home pay gets cut.

75-80% voted for Trump?

At first I thought you must have been like border patrol, but I guess you are at the post office from your avatar. Is it just that you're in rural Wyoming or something?

North Central Texas

The county I live in voted 76% for Trump

no it wont.

and you will fall in line.

awval, you are the bolded. you are the bolded bc we told you over and over that this would happen.

we knew this would happen for 2 reasons.

1)the middle class are the only ppl with enough income and money to go after. poor dont make enough.

2)every single tax proposal and tax policy that the GOP and trump and trumps lackeys talked about in the election either explicitly or implicitly actually included a rise in middle class taxes.

and you are still in DENIAL about this.

by the time the 2018 elections roll around you will be in the bargaining phase and will gleefully pull the lever for Rs. you will convince yourself that they will be undoing these increases or that the dems would install even worse taxes on the middle class (lololol at thinking dems would ever do this)

its almost as if there is something other than taxes that drives your voting, and the voting of other reps. cant quite put my finger on it at the moment.

oh btw, thanks for the long tax breakdown showing less money to the 75k earner. that sht was hilarious.

Victor you haven't been paying attention if you think I'd vote for a party in 2018 that raised my taxes.

And Victor--- I try to "show my work" in this thread. Because I enjoy actual factual discussion instead of just LOLOLOL awval comments from the brigade.

Not everyone in this forum knows the different between traditional and Roth.

so absolutely nothing.

and again, this shows why your support of the republicans due to taxes is a fundamental (and clearly simple) logical error.

you know that the dems will NEVER raise taxes on the middle class, esp the lower middle class where you reside. they likely wont lower them, but there is a tiny chance.

the republicans do not need to worry about such politics though bc they rule through voter suppression and motivating the masses with racism and straight up lying to the ignorant and stupid. so middle class tax raising is absolutely fair game to the republicans bc they know they will easily get away with it.

this election was proof that they will get away with it. they straight up told us that they would raise taxes for the middle class. and they still won.

LOL

There aren't enough voters who are so racist they would accept a cut in their take home pay. Not enough to win an election anyway.

There just aren't.

ok so why did you vote for trump then? bc it sure wasnt bc of taxes. trumps tax plan had been widely reported on and there was always a very strong threat that it would raise middle class taxes.

theres a massive disconnect here.

Hey bud,

You're one of them. This is obvious to everyone but you.

sorry dude. that wasnt a dig. for real.

I put the lower middle class as combined income of less than around 250k, esp with kids.

cost of living is high. taxes are high. kids are insanely expensive.

Taxed as what? Contributions have already been subjected to income tax. If you tax the capital gains and dividends then you're just abolishing Roth IRAs/401k. It would literally be just like a taxable account.

But is there anything stopping the congress from retroactively abolishing Roths? Maybe not but that's like saying there is nothing stopping congress from abolishing social security.

Nothing is stopping them from taxing gains in Roth accounts or withdrawals in the future but abolishing SS is a bad comparison. There is something stopping them from that, all old white people get SS and most of them vote.

Right, olds care about social security, not their retirement accounts. Bad comparison!

WTF

ya, I know the money is taxed going in.

I was saying is there anything to stop them from taxing the money coming out too. either the full amount, or the gains.

sounds like there isnt. so as their positions become more secure due to suppression and propaganda, I would expect that to occur.

it would only hurt a small portion of the population, many of whom would not notice or understand it, and many of whom wouldnt care bc racism, and still others who would just believe whatever lie Fox uses to promote/justify.

social security is a different story bc that would effect a ton more ppl. I think it will take a bit longer before that is ended but I would imagine it goes at some point in the future too. just not until the boomers get theirs ofc.

after all, this is america, why would they leave a dollar for someone else to pick up. /deuce quote

They will be in 30 years.

“I just can’t see them voting for this...”


Mother****er they passed a house bill to take away health care from millions to pass a tax cut to the rich


If you think they aren’t going to **** you over during actual tax reform, wake the **** up


Maybe this will be your “and then they came for me moment” and instead of there was no one there to turn to, it will be **** you

I think you are delusional if you think any political party can stomp on the income >$50,000 voters and their retirement accounts without electoral consequences.

And EL OH EL if you think a political party can "take away" social security. Literally every single taxpayer has paid into that ponzi scheme. It's called the 3rd rail for a reason.

The GOP controls the Presidency and the Senate because of narrow margins in 4 B1G states, it's a mighty far jump from there to eliminating social security and Americans' retirement accounts.

But taxing the gains are abolishing Roth. That seems unlikely to me. Taxing Roth withdrawals as normal income is insane and would make the Roths in most cases worse than a regular taxable account.