2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right? - Page 11 - Politics and Economics

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2017 "Tax Reform": They'll Screw This Up Too, Right?

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10-04-2017 , 04:19 PM

#251

Victor

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

o hai awval.

lololol

pretty sure I predicted this too.

10-04-2017 , 06:58 PM

#252

awval999

Election Monitor.

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,269

AGI under $150k.

Holding out that I won’t have to issue a mea culpa.

10-04-2017 , 08:52 PM

#253

TiltedDonkey

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Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 2,975

Jesus goddamn christ

Last edited by TiltedDonkey; 10-04-2017 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Awval

10-04-2017 , 08:56 PM

#254

OneEyedPoker

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 569

Quote:

Originally Posted by awval999

AGI under $150k.

Holding out that I won’t have to issue a mea culpa.

So if he promises to give you a tax cut to cover this increase, next time around you'll still vote for him?

10-04-2017 , 09:01 PM

#255

AllTheCheese

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Quote:

Originally Posted by OneEyedPoker

So if he promises to give you a tax cut to cover this increase, next time around you'll still vote for him?

I don't think it was ever really about tax cuts for him anyway. "We're taking our country back" doesn't sound like it refers to a lower marginal rate imo.

10-04-2017 , 09:26 PM

#256

fxwacgesvrhdtf

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Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by surftheiop

So back of the envelope, is this going to be good or bad for me? Married, 1kid 180k household income?

I'm in the exact same situation as you. Assuming you own a home, this is bad for you. Loss of the State income tax deduction makes the mortgage interest deduction not worth much and unless your mortgage is hella high probalby not even much more than they're doubling the standard deduction to, meanwhile you're also losing exemption. This plan ****s the upper middle class, hurts the middle class, and doesn't help the poor, so that the super rich get a super tax cut.

10-04-2017 , 09:31 PM

#257

fxwacgesvrhdtf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Yo awval,

Your TOO EARLY TO TELL routine is cute, but know this: you are the target. The people who are in the low 6 figure income range are the prey. You have enough money to justify taking some from them to make the deficit estimations work out, and you don't donate enough to deserve a tax break like the mega rich. You aren't numerous enough to be a political liability, and you are rich enough to not be a sympathy case in a political ad. You are exactly the person they can come for to fund, at least partially, this massive tax cut.

Yeah, exactly this. Fivethirtyeight has a good piece on how this plan completely and utterly ****s the "upper" middle class to give to the super rich. It's not surprising given that the upper middle class (who have a large crossover with the subset of people who are college educated) did not vote for Trump. Trump voters are the super rich, and the stupid poor. This helps the super rich, and the stupid poor are too stupid to realize what he's doing to them.

10-04-2017 , 09:41 PM

#258

fxwacgesvrhdtf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

As someone who falls into this category explicitly, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z

While certainly a lot of people in this category voted for Trump because REPUBLICANZZZ, I can also tell you a lot of the people in this category are liberal. I'm not at all unique.

Trump did not win the upper middle class. There has been a huge political re-alignment in Trump's America. Upper middle class, generally college educated, even republicans, voted for HRC. They were offset by racist white poors and racist white middle classers without college degrees.

10-04-2017 , 09:52 PM

#259

fxwacgesvrhdtf

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by raradevils

Ahh, let's go down that rabbit hole. I responded to a post that someone made about no money should be left, fast forward from zero to 11 million. FWIW did poker players that invested in bitcoin get their money off the backs of the poor?

Absolutely they did. Do you understand what currency is?

10-04-2017 , 10:31 PM

#260

AllTheCheese

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jman220

Every exit poll I've seen indicates that Donald Trump tied Hillary in groups 100-250 thousand range, as well as the 250000+ range of household income. This represents a somewhat sizable decline for Trump when compared to Romney (6 points or so), but your post overstates it. He still won very close to half of the upper middle class vote, even with Gary Johnson claiminng 4 to 5 percent.

10-05-2017 , 12:14 AM

#261

batair

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It’s time to bust the myth: Most Trump voters were not working class.

Quote:

...when we looked at the NBC polling data, we noticed something the pundits left out: during the primaries, about 70 percent of all Republicans didn’t have college degrees, close to the national average (71 percent according to the 2013 Census). Far from being a magnet for the less educated, Trump seemed to have about as many people without college degrees in his camp as we would expect any successful Republican candidate to have.

Quote:

Among people who said they voted for Trump in the general election, 35 percent had household incomes under $50,000 per year (the figure was also 35 percent among non-Hispanic whites), almost exactly the percentage in NBC’s March 2016 survey. Trump’s voters weren’t overwhelmingly poor. In the general election, like the primary, about two thirds of Trump supporters came from the better-off half of the economy.

Last edited by batair; 10-05-2017 at 12:25 AM.

10-05-2017 , 07:46 AM

#262

TheGodson

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 3,056

Quote:

Originally Posted by jman220

Absolutely they did. Do you understand what currency is?

Please elaborate. I want to know how me purchasing bitcoin hurt a bunch of poor people.

10-05-2017 , 08:15 AM

#263

awval999

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Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,269

Time to Correct the Record in here again.

First, the report from the non-partisan Tax Policy Center,
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publi...fied-framework

Quote:

To perform our analysis, we made many key assumptions that are detailed in appendix A.

It's a good starting point. But still the numbers up in the air. What are the tax bracket thresholds. Do the blue state Republicans hold up the elimination of the State/Local income tax deduction? How much is the child tax credit increased?

In regards to 2016 Exit Polls:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...xit-polls.html
http://www.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls

Trump either won all income brackets >$50,000 or was tied with HRC, depending on the exit poll. But it's totally not true that he was vanquished by HRC and that there is a new upper-middle class Democratic voting bloc.

NYT
$50,000 - $99,999 HRC 46% vs DJT 50%
$100,000 - $199,999 HRC 47% vs DJT 48%
$200,000 - $249,999 HRC 48% vs DJT 49%
$250,000 or more HRC 46% vs DJT 48%

CNN
$50k-$99,999
HRC 46% DJT 49%

$100k-$199,999
HRC 47% DJT 48%

$200k-$249,999
HRC 49% DJT 47%

$250,000 or more
HRC 46% DJT 46%

10-05-2017 , 08:21 AM

#264

awval999

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Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,269

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneEyedPoker

So if he promises to give you a tax cut to cover this increase, next time around you'll still vote for him?

No. This is really their one shot.

Every seems to forget Obama's payroll tax cut of 2011 and 2012.

That tax cut was worth $2136 per year.

Earned my vote in 2012.

And that is the threshold from which I will compare this GOP tax plan to.

10-05-2017 , 08:29 AM

#265

awval999

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Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,269

In regards to State/Local Tax Deductions:

I counted the following blue state GOP HoR-critters in:
California: 14
New Jersey: 5
New York: 9

That's 28 GOPers.

GOP has 240 Majority. 218 needed to pass. Those 28 Congresscritters themselves can tank the entire tax bill. Just FYI.

And this doesn't count other random GOP'ers who are the Congresscritters for richer, suburban counties in other states.

10-05-2017 , 08:35 AM

#266

bobman0330

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Quote:

Originally Posted by awval999

Aren't you a supporter of this tax reform plan? Why are you so excited to point out that it's DOA?

10-05-2017 , 08:37 AM

#267

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,678

awval, is there literally anything that goes into your voting consideration other than tax cuts?

10-05-2017 , 08:43 AM

#268

awval999

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Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,269

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

awval, is there literally anything that goes into your voting consideration other than tax cuts?

I mean, maybe not necessarily just "tax cuts" but in general, I focus on economic factors.

10-05-2017 , 08:47 AM

#269

Trolly McTrollson

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Awval's off-brand Hillbilly Elegy act sure got abandoned quickly.

10-05-2017 , 08:48 AM

#270

awval999

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Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,269

What I don't understand about the GOP, is why don't they love power more than tax cuts for the rich?

They could be in power for a generation.

Just keep cutting this tax bracket:
MFJ
15%
$18,650 to $75,900

Make it 10%, then 7.5%, then 5%.

I mean, look at the results the last 15 years or so. The GOP only loses when they take the nation to the brink of economic catastrophe.

I don't know, I guess I just won't ever understand.

10-05-2017 , 09:05 AM

#271

TiltedDonkey

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Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 2,975

Probably true for many things.

10-06-2017 , 04:20 PM

#272

goofyballer

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Apparently the latest argument from the derpers in chief is that the SALT deduction causes red states to subsidize blue states, LOL

Quote:

“We want to get the federal government out of the business of subsidizing the states.”
–Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, interview on ABC’s “This Week,” Oct. 1, 2017

“Is it fair that other states subsidize states that have high state taxes?”
–House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif,), interview on Fox Business Network, Sept. 29

“Here’s the simple pitch. If you and I make the exact same amount of money, we live in the exact same value of house, we have the same kind of car, our kids go to the same kind of schools, shouldn’t we pay the same federal income tax? The answer is yes, but the real world is no. If I live in a high tax state and you live in a low tax state, you actually pay more towards the federal government than I do. And that’s just not fair. It’s not right.”
–White House budget director Mick Mulvaney, interview on Fox Business Network, Sept. 29

lol, these ****ing morons. Anyway WaPo comes through with the latest edition of the "which states are actually federally subsidized" chart:

10-06-2017 , 04:25 PM

#273

otatop

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Quote:

Originally Posted by awval999

What I don't understand about the GOP, is why don't they love power more than tax cuts for the rich?

They could be in power for a generation.

Then they'd have to like...pass laws and do work, gross. They excel at being wrenches in the gears of government, not actually getting anything done.

As long as they can grab control every once in a while and give billionaires a tax break, they seem happy with things as they are.

10-06-2017 , 04:26 PM

#274

TiltedDonkey

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Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 2,975

"If only the GOP would cut middle class taxes and not rich people's, people like me would vote for them!" says middle class guy who voted for them for tax cuts.