My friend is currently involved in a dispute with SportsBookReview's A+ rated Youwager.

Cliff notes:

- guy runs up his balance from a few thousand to over $70K
- eventually they lower his limits on some markets to $1. He bets a bunch of those for $1 for record keeping
- one day he notices a captcha on his account. He figures it is a system wide change, thinks nothing of it and never fails to enter the code correctly
- he continues to bet large sums on stuff like football sides
- months later, he tries to cash out and they tell him he definitely used an automated betting robot, asking who the hell would bet $1 and leave $70K laying around in an account
- they have zero evidence of a betting robot. he did not use a bot. they refuse to pay

This definitely seems like the kind of dispute that the "Player's Advocate" and "Industry Watchdog" would like to get to the bottom of, right? Erm, no.

When he filed a complaint, SBR tried to blow him off and get him to admit to something he did not do, in exchange for a partial payout. He refused and eventually posted about the issue (they had led him on for weeks).

SBR has his account on some kind of probation, where they don't allow him to post. His posts must be approved by a moderator before they show up. They have heavily edited his posts and/or disallowed them altogether. In other words, someone with a $77K dispute with YW is not being allowed to tell his side of the story in a case where YW really has no defense. SBR, who takes money from YW and rates them A+, is censoring the issue.

It gets worse. I posted in the thread asking SBR to allow my friend ("creditcardclown") to post in his own dispute thread. They banned me. I cannot even see the forum now. Updated: they have also banned him. He cannot see the forum or post.

YouWager takes large deposits and allows big bets but has a $1K withdrawal limit for BTC. Something stinks here.

I will paste the deleted SBR posts and provide more info when I have time later. I am also planning on posting at Peep's place. Any place else I should spread the word? Thanks.

Also, "creditcardclown" is banned here on 2P2 for posts made in the politics forum and other nonsense. He cannot post here currently.

Time to make Youwager famous. I would use all of the social media vehicles available to make this public.

The fact that youwager is listed as an A+ book may be the most suspicious aspect in all of this. SBR is basically a referral shill service at this point, they have no credibility whatsoever.

This is certainly true. I warned my friend that sportsbookreview.com is a fake player's advocate/watchdog and will try and find any way possible to side with their sponsor.

That said, even I am shocked that they would outright ban two long time members without explanation and for merely wanting open discussion of a serious issue with a book they highly recommend. It's not only corrupt, it also seems downright stupid. Don't they realize their customers will find out one way or the other?

Literally my only connection is to make a post asking them to allow creditcardclown to post in his thread and in the other thread detailing youwager's shenanigans with paying out a couple accounts that were closed for sharp play (obvious inside job "hackings" result in thousands of dollars sent to wrong BTC addresses).

Here's CCC's original post (it's long, see my cliff notes above if you don't want to read):

YouWager Invented Lies and is Confiscating My $77,721

SUMMARY:
2017/2016 – Open account. Place hundreds or thousands of sports bets. Win a lot of money.
2018 May/June – Place 72 bets for $1 or $3.
2018 June to October – Place hundreds or thousands of bets for well over 6 figures.
2018 October – Put in a cashout request. YouWager tells me they are confiscating my money, claiming the $1 bets from half a year ago, and leaving too much money in the account, prove I used an automated robot bettor... I never used an automated robot bettor. I left money in the account because SBR has them A rated. Details below ->>>

I had an account on YouWager for a couple of years which I built up by sports betting various stuff including, college football, baseball, college basketball, nfl, full game and first half.

Around the beginning of October, 2018, my account had $77,721 in it, and I put in a cashout request. Their cashier confirmed the cashout. They sent me a validation code on email, I called them back up with the code, they confirmed the cashout and told me I’d have the $1,000 in bitcoins the next day. It never came.

I waited for days and nothing came. So I tried to put in another cashout. Once again their cashier confirmed it and told me I’d have it the next day. Nothing came. On October 7th, I sent their support an email asking what was going on. They didn’t respond. I sent another email on October 9th, asking when the cashout would go through. They didn’t respond. I tried one more cashout, and YouWager repeated the same process of confirming the cashout but not sending me the bitcoins.

I believe on October 20th I finally called in and got through to a manager at YouWager. He told me that he was going to confiscate my winnings (which should be virtually all of the account) because I was using a betting robot. I told him I never used a betting robot and that was ridiculous. He told me he was going to email me his alleged proof.

I waited for his email, but he never sent anything.

On October 24th I opened up a complaint with SBR. SBR told me my complaint was premature and I should make sure all my documents with YouWager were verified.

At this point, my YouWager account was still open. I could log in and place bets. I had been placing large college football bets throughout October, though stopped at some point when this cashout problem began. So I went ahead and sent in my ID to YouWager and they told me my account was verified. I asked them if I could make a cashout now. They told me yes. I put in another cashout request on October 25th, which their cashier confirmed, and told me I’d get the next day. It never came.

After some back and forth on email, they told me to call in to discuss the cashout with them. So I called in and YouWager told me there was no manager to talk to me. On email I let them know again about this problem.

The YouWager manager I had been talking with, on October 29th, then popped into this email chain and wrote that he had been “eagerlywaiting” for me to call him back and that he would “love to talk” with me about about “all the odd robot play.” He told me to call him early the next day. At this point, YouWager closed my account.

I called him at 10 AM the next day and YouWager told me he wasn’t in.

I called back in the evening and finally got in touch with him again.

He told me he had been waiting for me to call him and wondered where I had disappeared too. He reiterated YouWager’s claim about me using an automated bettor and how YouWager would take my account money. He told me that I was fortunate to be dealing with YouWager because any other book would have closed my account a while ago but YouWager hadn’t.

He said again that earlier in the year he had placed some small limits on some of my bet types and the fact that I put in some bets for $1, in May and June, despite the fact that I had so much money in my account, was proof of an automated bettor. I told him I never used a betting robot. I put some bets in at $1 because I liked the bets and wanted to see how they did. It’s much easier to have software grade bets than to write them out by hand, grade them, and tally them up.

He said that the fact that I hadn’t cashed out sooner was highly suspicious and also proof of an automated bettor. I told him that SBR rates YouWager an A, and I thought they were rock solid, and hadn’t been worrying about cashing out the money as fast as possible. Even though they now have a max cashout of $1,000 per cashout, which is a bit odd for a book that takes such large bets, I didn’t think they were another BetIslands.

Further, I was planning on cashing out in bitcoin, and already had enough bitcoin which had been at a really high price. I wanted to wait until the price of bitcoin came down instead of getting bitcoin at sky high prices.

The YouWager manager told me they had flagged my account back in May and June. I told them they never closed my account, or communicated any sort of problem with me. I had been betting on the account since then for many large bets.

YouWager’s own terms and services, on their webpage, says that for any alleged problem they have, they must immediately close an account. I asked the YouWager manager how they could possibly take my money for an alleged problem from half a year ago? He told me that the YouWager owners had decided in May/June that because they are such a good book they wouldn’t confiscate my money but would instead leave it open and see what happened.

He told me they were so sure of the automated bettor they put a captcha on my account. I pointed out that I kept betting through their captcha and that it showed I wasn’t using an automated bettor. YouWager’s own “evidence” disproved their position. He told me he didn’t know how I could use an automated bettor with their captcha.

The next day the YouWager manager emailed me 72 bets I had placed for $1 and $3 from May 23rd 2018 to June 14th 2018 which was his “proof” I used an automated bettor and the reason YouWager would confiscate $77k from me in October. Again, his own “proof” seems to undermine his position. The bets he emailed me took place during normal day time hours, when a person would be awake, and there was no rapid fire plays that maybe a fast computer could place.

So, once again, I went back to SBR and re-opened the claim. I told SBR that I completed the verification, Know Your Customer stuff, and YouWager had definitely confiscated my money as the YouWager manager had emailed me on October 31st “this is a robot account and we will be closing and confiscating the winnings.”

I corresponded with SBR for a while as they checked out my claim. They told me that if I did use a betting robot, I should just say so now, because it would strengthen my position to be truthful. I told them I never used a betting robot, and IMO, YouWager’s own so-called evidence actually lends more credence to my point than their own.

SBR said that YouWager’s claim was unusual. They wanted to just double check and make sure of the details. They asked me, if they lined up my bets with DonBest would they see me copying them. I said no. And I sent them over YouWager’s “proof” so they could see it themselves.

As of November 7th, SBR told me they were waiting to speak with YouWager’s management. SBR didn’t respond to me again until November 16th and told me that YouWager was now claiming that they had identified systematic bets within seconds of line movements, and emailed me a form which I could sign saying I used robot plays and then YouWager may release some funds.

I told SBR again, I never used an automated bettor. It had taken weeks for me to clarify what YouWager’s position even was and now YouWager had changed their story. First their proof was bets I put in at $1. Then it became these alleged bets chasing line movements. I told SBR that YouWager never even brought this claim up with me once. And that they couldn’t possibly have evidence of it because it didn’t happen and I never used an automated bettor.

I told SBR this was becoming stressful for me and drawing on forever and I would let this go and take a minor discount on the money but would not sign anything saying I used an automated bettor because I hadn’t.

I have put in thousands of bets on YouWager. If they have proof of automated betting it should be easy for them to show. But they can’t show it because there is no proof because I never used an automated bettor.

I pointed out to SBR again that I don’t understand how they can even try to take money away from me in October for something alleged to have happened in May and June.

SBR responded to me that I should get in touch with YouWager and may be able to work something out.

So I emailed the YouWager manager and said let’s try to resolve this. The YouWager manager wondered where I had disappeared to for the last few weeks and told me to call in. He said I needed to work something out with someone from the “YouWager legal department” who had been really “eager” to talk with me.

He couldn’t find this guy, so told me to call back in a few minutes. I did and he told me he couldn’t find him and to call back in a couple hours. So I called back in a couple hours and was told this guy at the YouWager legal department was sick, but he may try to feel better fast, and may call me in the evening, or if not, in a couple days.

He never called me.

So I called back the YouWager manager and let him know I never got a call back. He told me he was sorry and would have him call me back right away, and if not, he would personally call me back. So I waited for a phone call but nothing came.

A few hours later, I check my email and there is something in there from some guy at a “BetPop.eu” address. I have no idea what that means but presumably this was the YouWager legal team. He told me he really wanted to help me but first I’d have to sign his letter saying I made robot plays. That’s the same form I told SBR I absolutely cannot sign because I didn’t make robot plays. He said, after that, he may release some unknown amount of funds.

I’m not signing a form saying I made robot bets. I never did. Even if YouWager is holding my money hostage and dragged the situation out, I won’t sign a form saying I made robot bets.

I have no idea how an A rated book can act like this. Maybe there is some confusion inside of YouWager. I don’t know. I just want my money from this A rated book YouWager.

He made that post and received a message that his post required approval from a moderator. He refreshed the page every 10 minutes and his post finally appeared about 3 hours later. Strangely, poster "sweep" answered this long post almost immediately and pointed out a past post of creditcardclown's where he had asked a question about programming. It's a bizarre post on a couple of different levels:

- how did he read this long post and immediately find a post about programming from CCC's post history
- the post is illogical. It's defense lawyer logic. A guy asked on a forum about scraping data and this means you can seize his $77K for automated betting with zero evidence? Huh?

I believe sweep was probably acting as a shill for SBR. CCC told me this right when he saw the post and I didn't really believe it. He pointed out to me that SBR had called this past post problematic in their correspondence with him. It seemed quite a coincidence that his post would be held up for over 3 hours and then sweep would immediately chime in with that bizarre reply. I have seen "sweep" mention in the past that he has connections at Costa Rican books and has inside info. Is he some kind of SBR shill or lackey? Does he live in CR?

So this was CCC's reply to sweep:

SBR eventually approved this post (same process as before) but edited it to this:

So I made this post, wanting CCC to be allowed to post freely in his own thread about youwager stealing $77,000 from him:


I then responded to another poster who had said that betting $1 was a mistake because it gave youwager too good of a reason to not pay him. I responded:


Both of my posts were deleted and I was banned from forum use. I can log in to SBR but cannot see any of the forums. I just wanted to show neither of my posts were inflammatory nor controversial. That is everything that I posted, nothing more

so scummy. holy **** this makes my blood boil.

best of luck, sorry i wish i had some good advice for you

edit: i have made an SBR account just to voice how awful this is

Gotta make sure the rec players see it if it's gonna make any difference:

https://twitter.com/youwager_ff?lang=en

https://twitter.com/ff_bpp

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/4...e-job-1728396/

https://web.archive.org/web/20181125...n-via-btc.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20181125...-77-721-a.html

lol sbr is a joke

Optional is hands down the biggest scumbag

Thanks for the support guys, it is appreciated.

In the thread, an SBR mod said OP is definitely not banned. This is what he sees when he tries to access the forum:

https://ibb.co/0Q0KJfW -link to image

He can log in, he just cannot see the forum or post. LOL, guess this is what they mean that he is not banned??? It is also an IP ban. He tried a new account and gets the same message. I see the same thing on my account, so I’m guessinbg I’m IP banned too.

Could someone please point this out over on the SBR thread? Just realize, posting about this or linking here will probably get you banned.

Yeah, he is banned Post-Oak. Shari must have been mistaken. She would not bother to lie about that.

I don't know why he's banned btw. I just look after the industry sub forum and help people with complaints. Admin do not explain themselves to me and another dispute agent was looking after him. I'd guess it's something to do with the case itself.

If you were only banned for talking about him being banned, I'm pretty sure if you email forum@sportsbookreview that would get reviewed. Or it's probably only a few days timeout anyway?

Sorry to hear you think that.

I kind of pride myself on being fair and honest.

If you want to find a post where you think I have not been either of those things, please go ahead and quote me here and I'll try to explain myself if I can.

I don't feel like I have ever acted like a scumbag on there.

Sbr are bougt and paid for by scummy books what a joke of a site

Hope your friend gets paid op. I'd go the route of gambling regulator if any exist along with social media shaming.

there is nothing more infuriating than someone banking on a subjective "proof"

Moderator Shari has posted again saying she is certain OP has not been banned. Since that is your forum, shouldn’t you let her know the truth?

Maybe you can find out the reason OP and I have been banned and explain it in the thread? I’m guessing it has something to do with corruption, back room dealings and a betrayal of SBR’s mission statement.

Do people at these fly-by-night bull**** books not get killed often? I by no means have my finger on the pulse of the sports betting community, but I assume there are plenty of unsavory characters on both sides. It would seem that before you forfeit tens of thousands of dollars, you would pay a small fraction of that to some sicario in Honduras to take a day trip to Costa Rica and turn the betting house into a horror scene. Or maybe I should set up my own sportsbook scam house and pay off SBR for an A+ rating...

Yeah I saw. And just checked with her.

I was wrong. he's not banned.

She thinks he might be just trying to login directly on a page he doesn't have privileges to view somehow.

Tell him to log out and go to the main page of the forum and try to login again from there.



And if you email forum@ there I am pretty sure an admin will look at what happened with you.

As much as it seems the opposite sometimes, they hate us banning people for anything other than spamming or scamming.

I don't want to derail this thread, so please have a look at the post I made over here:https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=347

Discussion of your posting record at SBR ought to continue in that thread, and leave this one for discussion of YouWager potentially scamming a player for $77,000.

I'm not really up for engaging the forum to defend SBR Holiday. Just saw this thread and wanted to help clear it up as it sounded awful.

Did you ever submit your problem to SBR for help? Or post about it over there? I don't recall ever hearing of an issue with 100k confiscated. And I'm very surprised I have not for that amount!

There has been one instance I felt they were being unfair about KYC for around 10k quite a few years back. But that's really the only one I've seen I felt was questionable from them.

Anyway, if you want help with it still, send in the complaint form. They will talk to us.

*chuckles silently to myself*

I don't have much time, but quick update...

I can now log into SBR and see the forums. When I try to post it says that my posts must be approved by a moderator. I cannot send PMs. I tried to post to the SBR thread. We'll see how it goes. I again asked that the OP be allowed to post in his own thread in order to answer questions anyone might have.

SBR is pretty unbelievable...

Note: I am KGambler over on SBR

So I noticed today that I could see the SBR forums again. I went to post and got a message saying my posts must wait for approval from a moderator. I also cannot send PMs. I attempted 3 posts and waited.

1. One guy had posted

So I responded saying I was the friend and that OP was banned from 2p2 for nonsense not related to gambling (politics forum). This post eventually showed up.


2. An SBR administrator had posted in the thread saying that OP is accused by youwager of breaking the following rule:

I responded saying that this rule states the account will be immediately closed. Instead they added a captcha, which was bypassed with no failures, and then waited months while the OP bet big on football, clearly free-rolling in a most scummy fashion. They kept this "problem" in their back pocket in case he ever did request a cash out. All in violation of the rule they are citing.

This post never showed up.


3. I tried to make the following post:

This post never showed up.

SBR moderators continue to post in the thread saying that we (OP and I) have not been banned. This is some kind of Orwellian newspeak I guess. I was prevented from seeing the forum at all and could not post. Sure I could log in, but I was banned from the forums. Same goes for OP. They are simply lying through their teeth.

It's clear that nothing that can damage youwager or embarrass sportsbookreview will be allowed in the thread. I'm not going to post again because they are just going to cherry pick and try to bolster youwager's case. They've also already edited posts and I have no reason to believe that they would ever act in good faith.

yah